Chrysler...I mean FIAT announce Battery Free Hybrid Technology

[JTB]

IMO the batteries in current Hybrids make them an unencumbered FRAUD, this new technology looks promising, but the real elixir is Hydrogen Power, IMO





http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/20/c...compresses-ga/

[Johnny Dangerously]

I heard about this when it was first put on the UPS trucks. Nice out of the box thinking.

I 100% agree about the batteries. They are a bane to the environment.

I agree with the hydrogen somewhat, but another direction that I'd like to see is the use of ultra capacitors as the storage device. Their big drawback is that they typically don't trickle discharge. On the other hand, when you need to drain them to work on them or near them, they can safely be discharged with the push of a button. Especially useful in emergency rescue situations.


`

[JTB]

I heard about this when it was first put on the UPS trucks. Nice out of the box thinking.

I 100% agree about the batteries. They are a bane to the environment.

I agree with the hydrogen somewhat, but another direction that I'd like to see is the use of ultra capacitors as the storage device. Their big drawback is that they typically don't trickle discharge. On the other hand, when you need to drain them to work on them or near them, they can safely be discharged with the push of a button. Especially useful in emergency rescue situations.


`

Interesting idea about the capacitors JD, aren't they also a lot lighter than a battery?

[Johnny Dangerously]

Interesting idea about the capacitors JD, aren't they also a lot lighter than a battery?

Yes, but part of that is due to needing less volume I think.

Oshkosh trucks uses them on their HEMTT heavy truck.

http://www.oshkoshdefense.com/pdf/Os...w-ProPulse.pdf

Here's a description of the ProPulse system. Check out what they can do with 100kW of power when it goes into generator mode.

http://www.oshkoshcorporation.com/ab...s~propulse.cfm

They obviously have found a way to slow the discharge of the ultracapacitors without using a battery to do it. The big drawback (currently) may be that the HEMTT was the only vehicle large enough to carry the system.


`

[68fastback]

IMO the batteries in current Hybrids make them an unencumbered FRAUD, this new technology looks promising, but the real elixir is Hydrogen Power, IMO





http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/20/c...compresses-ga/

Ford has several patents on this same technology going back perior to 2002. Here's coverage of an info release in 2002 using low- and high-pressure hydraulic cylinders cylinders with nitrogen gas. I saw this implemented on the Ford F350 Tonka at the 2005(?) NYIAS in NYC. I wonder if Ford Global is licensing it ...or how it might not infringe. Ford also has patents on a mechanical spring (vs nitrogen) version (2005) and also a pump-augmented version. If I recall Ford shelved implementation in the trucks but I don't recall all the specifics of why.

I didn't think Lithium Ion batteries are an environmental problem, as I understand it. NiCads are environmentally horrible (as we know all to well in NY from a major Cadmium plant on the Hudson that shall go unnamed) and, to a lesser degree, NiMH, but I'm not aware of serious concerns over Li-ion aside from the fact that, historically, recycling was just not bothered with. Ford has been clear that the Li-ion batteries packs they are designing with LG for the Focus can be recycled. In july '09 the US Department of Energy granted $9.5 million to California-based Toxco (a subsidiary of Kinsbursky Brothers, Inc.) to build America's first recycling facility expressly for end-of-life lithium ion vehicle battery recycling. Exactly how much of the lithium, aluminum, copper, nickel, etc will be recycled has not been revealed yet as far as I'm aware.

Ford's Wayne Michigan facility (which is being heavily revamped to build the new Focus and Focus EV) will have a half-megawatt roof-top solar facility buffered for 'dark-hours' usage using the same Li-ion battery packs that the Electric Focus will use. The solar facility will also be utility "grid-interactive" (using the utility as the buffer) but the battery capacity will be sized to that portion of buffering that coinsides with utility peak demand, thereby saving even more since commercial accounts pay more during peak vs off-peak. This is surely only a portion of the plant's total electic consumption but will be used to charge the actual battery packs that are being installed in the Focus EV during production -- cool idea.

[Johnny Dangerously]

Lithium is still a problem, just not as bad as Cadmium or Nickel. On of the biggest problems is the ability to recycle these metals.

If I remember right, lead-acid batteries are 95%+ recycleable, which is way more than any other type.

When I worked on a lithium Ion battery program several years ago, the method for destroying used cells was to freeze them & grind them up prior to disposal. That was 10 years ago though, so there is probably a better method now.


`

[Alloy Dave]

Go hydrogen.

[Johnny Dangerously]

Go hydrogen.

My favorite myth about hydrogen that many people keep bringing up is the Hindenberg tragedy. All they can see is a large burning airship that they think is burning due to the hydrogen.

Nothing can be further from the truth.

1) Hydrogen burns clear
2) The Hindenburg is still floating as it's burning. If the hydrogenwas actually burning, the whole airship would have come crashing to earth, not floating down somewhat gently.


`
[/LIST]

[68fastback]

True ...the skin of Hindenberg was flammable too ...of course, once the skin ignited by static-charge, the hydrogen inside didn't help any.

Mythbusters redux

Other discussion

[JTB]

True ...the skin of Hindenberg was flammable too ...of course, once the skin ignited by static-charge, the hydrogen inside didn't help any.



Mythbusters redux

Other discussion

It was a spectacular aircraft, IMO and this would have been an unbelievable way to travel, if one wasn't in a hurry.