Question on 2013 GT500

[HSURB]

Quick question on the 2013 GT500. In all the threads I've read, they only refer to it as the GT500. Will is still be badged a Shelby car?

I'm not one of those freaks that think it is only a Shelby if it has been in Vegas.

I'm simply curious if the 2013 GT500 will have Shelby on it.

If I've overlooked a thread explaining this, just point me towards it and delete this.

HSURB®

[Tommy Gun]

:koolaid:

[Grabber]

The back of the car still has SHELBY on it. and the order info has it on it as well.

Here's the order info.

November 16, 2011
To: All Ford Dealers
Subject: 2013 Shelby GT500 Program Announcement
The ultimate Ford Mustang – Shelby GT500 – raises the bar high on performance with the introduction of
the new 2013 model that goes on sale next year delivering 650 horsepower and a top speed of more than
200 mph. The Shelby GT500 is now powered by an aluminum 5.8-liter supercharged V8 producing 650
horsepower and 600 lb.-ft. of torque, making it the most powerful production V8 engine in the world.
METHODS FOR EARNING ALLOCATION
All Ford full-line dealers will have the opportunity to enroll in theShelby GT500 Dealer Certification
Program for the 2013MY. Every dealer enrolled in the program will be eligible for (1) Shelby GT500. The
remaining allocation will be assigned based on2011CY retail sales (Share of Nation Mustang).
PROGRAM ENROLLMENT
Additional informationon the program enrollment andcertification requirements will be made available in
January. The dealer enrollment process will begin in early February. The 2013 Shelby GT500 is
expected tobeginproduction in the 2nd quarter.

[Alloy Dave]

Good info. Yes the pics I've seen still say Shelby on them.

[Boston Mike]

If I ever get one, I'm having a U, and an R made to replace the E, L and the Y.

[68fastback]

If I ever get one, I'm having a U, and an R made to replace the E, L and the Y.

...don't forget to swap the S and the H :giggle:

[Tommy Gun]

:spitcopy:

[Joe G]

...don't forget to swap the S and the H :giggle::lol:

[Boston Mike]

...don't forget to swap the S and the H :giggle:

But of course. :tiphat2:

[Carnut]

If I ever get one, I'm having a U, and an R made to replace the E, L and the Y.

Blasphemer :redcard3:

[Boston Mike]

Blasphemer :redcard3:

A GT500 with "H S U R B" on the back is infinitely more valuable than one with "S H E L B Y". You're just drinking the wrong flavor Kool Aid. :giggle:

[Carnut]

A GT500 with "H S U R B" on the back is infinitely more valuable than one with "S H E L B Y". You're just drinking the wrong flavor Kool Aid. :giggle:

Not really, mine has C A R N U T on the back.

[Boston Mike]

Not really, mine has C A R N U T on the back.


What does Tunrac mean?

:tease2:

[Cobra Drifter]

Wouldnt it be a coincidence if Shelby kicked the bucket when the contract with ford ends in 2014.

[Joe G]

Wouldnt it be a coincidence if Shelby kicked the bucket when the contract with ford ends in 2014.Wouldn't matter.

They'll ship Mummy Shelby all over the world to keep the interest up in the "S-H-E-L-B-Y" name (and still probably charge for an autograph from the mummy :giggle:)

[Boston Mike]

Wouldn't matter.

They'll ship Mummy Shelby all over the world to keep the interest up in the "S-H-E-L-B-Y" name (and still probably charge for an autograph from the mummy :giggle:)

You underestimate them. Remember how a number of years ago, the baseball card companies starting having "game used memorabilia" cards that contained a small slice of a bat or ball or glove or jersey, etc in the card? You can probably see where I'm going with this.............

[Joe G]

You underestimate them. Remember how a number of years ago, the baseball card companies starting having "game used memorabilia" cards that contained a small slice of a bat or ball or glove or jersey, etc in the card? You can probably see where I'm going with this.............


Mummy DNA from this thread? :yuk: http://stangsunited.com/showthread.php?4715-Carroll-Shelby-Accused-of-Sexual-Harrassment


http://freeforumsigs.com/ffs_gallery/albums/batch/zzzpre made animations/mummy.gif

[Shlbylvr]

A GT500 with "H S U R B" on the back is infinitely more valuable than one with "S H E L B Y". You're just drinking the wrong flavor Kool Aid. :giggle:

BUT yours would never be a true H S U R B Vehicle, you'll have too many miles on it.




:sofa:

[Boston Mike]

BUT yours would never be a true H S U R B Vehicle, you'll have too many miles on it.




:sofa:

It's a computer. I'm sure one of the lackies here at Dell can find a way to reset it.

[CH53Driver]

Not really, mine has C A R N U T on the back.

I thought you had N U T H O A R D E R on yours? :look:

[Birdman]

Quick question on the 2013 GT500. In all the threads I've read, they only refer to it as the GT500. Will is still be badged a Shelby car?

I'm not one of those freaks that think it is only a Shelby if it has been in Vegas.

I'm simply curious if the 2013 GT500 will have Shelby on it.

If I've overlooked a thread explaining this, just point me towards it and delete this.

HSURB®

Yes as Rob has indicated in his post but I fully expect that the 2014 year model will be the last SHELBY. After that it will go back to "Cobra" or some derivative thereof.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z234/svtbird91/2013GT500/13ShelbyGT500_19-2.jpg

[Shlbylvr]

I thought you had N U T H O A R D E R on yours? :look:

:nonono:

ACORNEATER

[Shlbylvr]

Yes as Rob has indicated in his post but I fully expect that the 2014 year model will be the last SHELBY. After that it will go back to "Cobra" or some derivative thereof.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z234/svtbird91/2013GT500/13ShelbyGT500_19.jpg

I really like that Assend on that baby.

[Birdman]

I really like that Assend on that baby.

:bunny:

[Tommy Gun]

I really like that Assend on that baby.




:uwelcome:




.

[Tommy Gun]

Yes as Rob has indicated in his post but I fully expect that the 2014 year model will be the last SHELBY. After that it will go back to "Cobra" or some derivative thereof.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z234/svtbird91/2013GT500/13ShelbyGT500_19-2.jpg



So I need a 2014 to go w my first year Shelby? :shades:


.

[Shlbylvr]

:bunny:


:uwelcome:




.:doh2:

[Carnut]

What does Tunrac mean?

:tease2:


I thought you had N U T H O A R D E R on yours? :look:


:nonono:

ACORNEATER

Tunrac is from the ancient dialect of lerriuqs, meaning nut hoarder or acorn eater, describing the superspecies of squrrels that ruled the planet.


:tease2:

[Tommy Gun]

Good thing you didn't say nut eater, you'd never hear the end of it. :shades:


.

[Carnut]

:goodpost:

[Joe G]

So I need a 2014 to go w my first year Shelby? :shades:


.:doh2:


You don't have enough room for the 15 cars, trucks and vans you already have.

[Boston Mike]

Good thing you didn't say nut eater, I might have gotten excited :weg: :bunny:

.

:wow2:

[Tommy Gun]

:doh2:


You don't have enough room for the 15 cars, trucks and vans you already have.


True :nonono:

[68fastback]

Wouldn't matter.

They'll ship Mummy Shelby all over the world to keep the interest up in the "S-H-E-L-B-Y" name (and still probably charge for an autograph from the mummy :giggle:)

I'm coming to a city near you! http://freeforumsigs.com/ffs_gallery/albums/batch/zzzpre made animations/mummy.gif

http://stangsunited.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7497&d=1321676685 :haha:

[Alloy Dave]

I really like that Assend on that baby.:uwelcome:

[Joe G]

I'm coming to a city near you! http://freeforumsigs.com/ffs_gallery/albums/batch/zzzpre made animations/mummy.gif

http://stangsunited.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7497&d=1321676685 :haha:


:surprised:


:giggle:

[onecrazydog]

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z234/svtbird91/2013GT500/13ShelbyGT500_19-2.jpg



I'd hit it...

[Cobra Drifter]

Features of the 2013 was on display at SEMA you know. My friends 2012 in the ford booth outside. I'll find the pics

[Cobra Drifter]

http://truforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519
http://truforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3521

[CH53Driver]

Is this a tech thread? :giggle:

[mustang loco]

I really like that Assend on that baby.

+1,exept those lights,until I see them up close..Id rather the first gen.(07-09) flat look,these look too much like the GT350,imho...maybe its just me though!!

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac84/WickedStallions/2011%20GT350/2011-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-rear.jpg

[Shlbylvr]

+1,exept those lights,until I see them up close..Id rather the first gen.(07-09) flat look,these look too much like the GT350,imho...maybe its just me though!!

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac84/WickedStallions/2011 GT350/2011-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-rear.jpg

I like the lights.

[HSURB]

Here are more '13 Shelby GT500 photos.

http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/2011/11/19/photo-gallery-ford-releases-new-images-of-the-2013-shelby-gt500/

HSURB®

[KoolAid Man]

+1,exept those lights,until I see them up close..Id rather the first gen.(07-09) flat look,these look too much like the GT350,imho...maybe its just me though!!

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac84/WickedStallions/2011 GT350/2011-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-rear.jpg

Oh Yeah that Shelby's bustin it!!! http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee518/MrKoolAid/KoolAidMan-1.jpg

[Joker]

Anyone else notice that there is no strut tower brace?

[Birdman]

Anyone else notice that there is no strut tower brace?

Correct...

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z234/svtbird91/2013GT500/13ShelbyGT500_37.jpg

[68fastback]

...possibly other tweaks (stiffenend radiator support?) makes it not needed?

[mustang loco]

Correct...




...possibly other tweaks (stiffenend radiator support?) makes it not needed?

wonder how much does the stock one really helps,had to remove mine cause went with a 123mm whipple cai,so fitment became an issue,& to be honest with you guys,didnt really see a difference...

[Birdman]

wonder how much does the stock one really helps,had to remove mine cause went with a 123mm whipple cai,so fitment became an issue,& to be honest with you guys,didnt really see a difference...

If I remember correctly when they designed the 2010 front end/hood etc they didn't have enough time to redesign one but the unibody is said to be stiff enough to not need the strut brace so they never did add one.

[Alloy Dave]

Here are more '13 Shelby GT500 photos.

http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/2011/11/19/photo-gallery-ford-releases-new-images-of-the-2013-shelby-gt500/

HSURB®Something's not right with those pics. Look at the S/C, it's not a TVS. :conspiracy:

[68fastback]

...maybe that was the prototype? The engine shown at LAIAS has a "5.8" on one side and "SVT" on the other side ...like below. Then again, maybe the production units won't have that -- dunno. The pics below are high-res images (courtesy FoMoCo) that you can click-up large for a closer look. Both variations have snout-braces on the gear case that are different than the stock SC and FRP TVS. Seems like there have been some packaging tweaks?

75057506

[Birdman]

Something's not right with those pics. Look at the S/C, it's not a TVS. :conspiracy:

It's a TVS...remember this TVS is an upgraded model with a "L&M" style inlet design. (very similar to the L&M cnc plenum to TVS port matched one)
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z234/svtbird91/emoticons/new%20smiles/conspiracy-1-1.gif

[68fastback]

:wtg:

With the much-improved IC/HE/cooling and with that improved SC inlet, a pulley, an L&M TB, and proper tune tweaks should uncork lots more efficient HP before timing gets pulled. :banana: ...atually the stock tune may be rather forgiving given the wide-band O2s and what looks like lots of MAF capacity (assuming that intake tube and existing sensor). Aside from possible torque-table limits etc in the stock tune, it might actually be pump capacity that's the primary limiter ...and that's likely around 650rw with some reserve?

...ok, lets lose the boat-anchor headers too :biggrin:

[The Bone]

As far as headers they could have done a lot better like Dan says It would free up a little more HP than those cast iron ones

[Birdman]

As far as headers they could have done a lot better like Dan says It would free up a little more HP than those cast iron ones

I think they keep them to keep the noise factor in check. Smoother and quieter... They are not really a great restriction in the system and they have already upgraded the rest of the exhaust system when they did the 2011's.

[Alloy Dave]

It's a TVS...remember this TVS is an upgraded model with a "L&M" style inlet design. (very similar to the L&M cnc plenum to TVS port matched one)
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z234/svtbird91/emoticons/new smiles/conspiracy-1-1.gifSo they casing on the new TVS doesn't have the helical shaped cast casting like the FRPP does?

[Alloy Dave]

George, I remember at one time someone mentioned that the '10 and newer GT500s had a more "locked down" tune software that was not as easy to modify. Can you talk about the tuning of the newer cars....will folks be able to tune them?

[68fastback]

...those stock high-silicon cast headers are heavy but will last forever.

I've often wondered about porting and polishing the stock cast-iron headers in general. I considered doing that on my '74 Capri V6 since I was keeping it totally 'sleeper.' In the end I went with LTs -lol ...I know it's not worth the effort, but I still wonder what kind of gains might be possible ...only for the incorrigibly (is that a word?) sleeper-addicted :giggle:

[Birdman]

So they casing on the new TVS doesn't have the helical shaped cast casting like the FRPP does?

I would expect it to appear pretty much the same as the FRPP TVS except maybe the "badging". Perhaps it will be "molded" in the casing or just a name plate...dunno

[Birdman]

George, I remember at one time someone mentioned that the '10 and newer GT500s had a more "locked down" tune software that was not as easy to modify. Can you talk about the tuning of the newer cars....will folks be able to tune them?

Nothing concrete yet except to say "Sources" within Ford are certain that is the way it is heading. The EEC management in cars today even compared to our 07's have become more complex and integrated, not only with the engine itself but directly affect the transmission, clutch and even the handling of the car. Ford does not like what the aftermarket has been doing with their engine management in that in many cases they are causing problems that lead directly and indirectly to catastrophic failures.

Customers don't always understand that their problems are often caused by the tuning changes made and often blame Ford for the problems, looking for Ford to fix them. Heck even many of the aftermarket tuners don't have a clue that it's their meddling that is the direct or indirect cause but instead often blame a "faulty part" or even "bad gas"...never their tune...:doh:

As the systems become even more complex you can see why it would be in Ford's best interest to "protect" their product", their investment of thousands of hours of research & development and not to mention their reputation.

You'll alway have the aftermarket digging into the EEC to "crack" the codes but they will never be able to fully understand everything in there, why it is there or what affect it has on things. It has become so complex there are only a few even within the Ford development team that fully understand it and are qualified to make proper changes that will increase performance without causing unforeseen consequences.

[Alloy Dave]

Good explanation. It would be nice if Ford would "authorize" a few tuners around the US, after significant training, to alter the tune to be more aggressive...even if it required signing an "I am willing to givfe up the warranty" card.

[Joe G]

Good explanation. It would be nice if Ford would "authorize" a few tuners around the US, after significant training, to alter the tune to be more aggressive...even if it required signing an "I am willing to givfe up the warranty" card.They do.

It's called a Ford Racing tune. (available in the BVM Performance store :bigboss:)

[Alloy Dave]

They do.

It's called a Ford Racing tune. (available in the BVM Performance store :bigboss:) I meant custom dufus. :rant:

[Joe G]

I meant custom dufus. :rant:Oh.


:tiptoe:

[68fastback]

This is exactly the problem ...once you're running a highly refined FRP tune, custom is merely checking/tweaking some tables to have torque limits set right, tip-in adequate to not stumble, a pleasing throttle 'attack,' modifying some throttle shift-softening settings. It does *not* mean targeting A/Fs artificially via screwing with the mass-air transfer curve regardless of the calibrated/true MAF/intake flow. There is no equally 'safe' with more power from the same mods. If the tune is proper you're already making all the power you can safely make with those mods without sacrificing engine logevity beyond the strees of the additional HP (vs slowly -- or not so slowly -- burning valves/pistons, etc). You can go leaner :yikes: you can artificially mess with the MAF curve convincing yourself it's ok because while on the dyno the A/Fs were absolutely fine :yikes: you can turn cat cooling totally off for dyno HP bragging rights even tho the car still has cats and they'll get fried as soon as the car sees some serious use :yikes: you can shut down hundreds of ETC safetys to try to get fundamentally defective TB designs to almost work like they were engineered to Ford's spec but can *nver* work right :yikes: you can command jacked-up fuel line pressures to get a lot more flow out of the injectors at the expense of exceeding the pumps duty cycle rahter than using proper-sized injectors :yikes: you can use a BAP and pretend it's good for the pumps because higher pump voltage is actually good and god-given right since the pump-buffer you're eating into is there to be expoited anyway -- instead of installing proper native pump capacity that will flow enough fuel to support target HP at correct pressrues with a proper buffer :yikes: you can use a MAFia extender to fake-out the ECU by voltage scaling the MAF sensor and give up some accuracy in the process of adding artificial capacity rather than using a larger MAF tube properly flow-calibrated with a given sensor in place :yikes: you can crank up boost really high with a small pulley or a humongous SC without tending to overall system efficiency (from filter to exhaust tips) because more boost has to be good :nonono: and thereby put unnecessary stress on your motor to make HP you could make with proper optimization at lower stress levels and with less boost :yikes: you can ignore adequate sustained cooling (engine, SC, etc) just to score big dyno numbers on Tuesday at 11:05 a.m. in November and that you'll enver see after the first 60 seconds of sustained use. The list of marginally sub-optimized to downright-bad ideas is seemingly endless. Which of those Ford might teach tuners to do properly is a somewhat of a defective question, imo. Also, I've long contended there are other legal concerns since an OEM's tunes are their proprietary information -- Intellectual Property (IP). An OEM can look the other way when someone (typically well-meaning tuners) modify their (cutomer) car in the interest of good customer relations, but encouraging/showing others how to do that is very possibly crossing an IP ownership line in the sand that might well remove IP protections, not to mention therby possibly assuming legal responsibility for any changes in emissions that might violate the tier/bin classification of the engine as certified, not to mention certain liabilities cannot be 'shielded' with 'releases' due to state laws. Realistically, Ford Racing retaining *any* warranty on their SC kits is testament to the intensive R&D, modelling, bench/chassiis dyno work and extensive field testing that goes into every FRP racing tune. The more one might choose to deviate from that rigorous approach, the more likely the engine might well be damaged ...or go Boom ...sooner, rather than later. Just some thoughts...

[Joe G]

:goodpost:




(... and :iagree: with all of the ":yikes:"... :giggle:)

[Grabber]

This is exactly the problem ...once you're running a highly refined FRP tune, custom is merely checking/tweaking some tables to have torque limits set right, tip-in adequate to not stumble, a pleasing throttle 'attack,' modifying some throttle shift-softening settings. It does *not* mean targeting A/Fs artificially via screwing with the mass-air transfer curve regardless of the calibrated/true MAF/intake flow. There is no equally 'safe' with more power from the same mods. If the tune is proper you're already making all the power you can safely make with those mods without sacrificing engine logevity beyond the strees of the additional HP (vs slowly -- or not so slowly -- burning valves/pistons, etc). You can go leaner :yikes: you can artificially mess with the MAF curve convincing yourself it's ok because while on the dyno the A/Fs were absolutely fine :yikes: you can turn cat cooling totally off for dyno HP bragging rights even tho the car still has cats and they'll get fried as soon as the car sees some serious use :yikes: you can shut down hundreds of ETC safetys to try to get fundamentally defective TB designs to almost work like they were engineered to Ford's spec but can *nver* work right :yikes: you can command jacked-up fuel line pressures to get a lot more flow out of the injectors at the expense of exceeding the pumps duty cycle rahter than using proper-sized injectors :yikes: you can use a BAP and pretend it's good for the pumps because higher pump voltage is actually good and god-given right since the pump-buffer you're eating into is there to be expoited anyway -- instead of installing proper native pump capacity that will flow enough fuel to support target HP at correct pressrues with a proper buffer :yikes: you can use a MAFia extender to fake-out the ECU by voltage scaling the MAF sensor and give up some accuracy in the process of adding artificial capacity rather than using a larger MAF tube properly flow-calibrated with a given sensor in place :yikes: you can crank up boost really high with a small pulley or a humongous SC without tending to overall system efficiency (from filter to exhaust tips) because more boost has to be good :nonono: and thereby put unnecessary stress on your motor to make HP you could make with proper optimization at lower stress levels and with less boost :yikes: you can ignore adequate sustained cooling (engine, SC, etc) just to score big dyno numbers on Tuesday at 11:05 a.m. in November and that you'll enver see after the first 60 seconds of sustained use. The list of marginally sub-optimized to downright-bad ideas is seemingly endless. Which of those Ford might teach tuners to do properly is a somewhat of a defective question, imo. Also, I've long contended there are other legal concerns since an OEM's tunes are their proprietary information -- Intellectual Property (IP). An OEM can look the other way when someone (typically well-meaning tuners) modify their (cutomer) car in the interest of good customer relations, but encouraging/showing others how to do that is very possibly crossing an IP ownership line in the sand that might well remove IP protections, not to mention therby possibly assuming legal responsibility for any changes in emissions that might violate the tier/bin classification of the engine as certified, not to mention certain liabilities cannot be 'shielded' with 'releases' due to state laws. Realistically, Ford Racing retaining *any* warranty on their SC kits is testament to the intensive R&D, modelling, bench/chassiis dyno work and extensive field testing that goes into every FRP racing tune. The more one might choose to deviate from that rigorous approach, the more likely the engine might well be damaged ...or go Boom ...sooner, rather than later. Just some thoughts...

Dan,

A local friend of mine could not get his GT500 to pass DEQ testing in Oregon. The Evolution tune had a bunch of stuff disabled on the car. Unfortunately they would not help him correct it. Is this what you are talking about ?

[Joe G]

Probably Rob.

What is he doing? Did he have to go back to stock? Will he put the Evo tune back in after it passes the test?

I may have a solution for your friend if needed...

[68fastback]

Dan,

A local friend of mine could not get his GT500 to pass DEQ testing in Oregon. The Evolution tune had a bunch of stuff disabled on the car. Unfortunately they would not help him correct it. Is this what you are talking about ?

They might have shut off the rear O2s if he had LTs (or maybe not) or might have simply been an OBD test that was not completing because he might have just reflashed or disconnected the battery recently before driving to the test without going thru enough drive cycles to permit certain tests to complete (they can tell when they plug into it) ...there's lots of things that can affect that.

[Grabber]

SteelSteeds could not get evolution to help him with his tune. The tune had been in his car for years and all he has is a JLT CAI.

Lance then felt like adding a smaller pulley to his car so I helped him put on the 2.59 VMP pulley and Justins tune. He needs to put some miles on the car like you said before he goes in for another test at the DEQ station.

[Alloy Dave]

Dan, I was mainly thinking of a tune for a higher octane fuel. :shades: Also I think sometimes the automaker thinks a given A/F is "safe" because of warranty issues...and if one is willing to forgive a bit of that safety factor by going to a slightly leaner A/F, then they should be able to do so. I do agree that whenever an engine blows and someone posts about it on the web, they should be obligated to say all the mods they've done, to not directly attribute it to the engine maker or parts makers.

[68fastback]

The mods and octane don't blow engines -- they're the "givens" ...the *tune* blows engines And tunes developed merely using pulls on a chassis dyno as the primary tool just can't maintain the target A/Fs at WOT across the myriad real-world operating conditions and dynamics as well as tunes developed using full environmental chambers (engien and air stream), thermal shock testing, calibrated systems, etc, etc. You can blow up an engine on C16 just as easily as on 87-pump ...in fact some have proven it's considerably easier :shades:

[Grabber]

The mods and octane don't blow engines -- they're the "givens" ...the *tune* blows engines And tunes developed merely using pulls on a chassis dyno as the primary tool just can't maintain the target A/Fs at WOT across the myriad real-world operating conditions and dynamics as well as tunes developed using full environmental chambers (engien and air stream), thermal shock testing, calibrated systems, etc, etc. You can blow up an engine on C16 just as easily as on 87-pump ...in fact some have proven it's considerably easier :shades:

I have only read about 2 or possibly 3 engines blowing. I know that you spend more time on the different forums than I do and probably know of many GTR500 engines that have blown up. Could you tell me whose tunes were in cars that have blown engines. I would like some honest open comments on this please ! Specifically which tuner or tuners are you saying this stuff about.

[68fastback]

I have only read about 2 or possibly 3 engines blowing. I know that you spend more time on the different forums than I do and probably know of many GTR500 engines that have blown up. Could you tell me whose tunes were in cars that have blown engines. I would like some honest open comments on this please ! Specifically which tuner or tuners are you saying this stuff about.

I'm only aware of several too. I haven't kept track of them, Rob. The individual tuners don't matter, how they tune is what matters. If you have a street GT500 I'd recommend using a TB that respects Ford's tune (L&M, CJ, BBK or stock) and use a tune built off an FRPP tune, done by a tuner who knows how to do things properly ...Dennis Gomes at Tasca comes to mind but I'm sure there are some others. I'm not going to comment further on that. :shades:

[The Bone]

Evolution should be ok Rob I haven't herd of any problems with there tunes.

[Grabber]

I'm only aware of several too. I haven't kept track of them, Rob. The individual tuners don't matter, how they tune is what matters. If you have a street GT500 I'd recommend using a TB that respects Ford's tune (L&M, CJ, BBK or stock) and use a tune built off an FRPP tune, done by a tuner who knows how to do things properly ...Dennis Gomes at Tasca comes to mind but I'm sure there are some others. I'm not going to comment further on that. :shades:

Dan, I have never heard of the tuners that you mention. I have seen the term name L&M thrown around in posts, but never seen a link to there site. I have been reading your posts on this for sometime now and all that I can gather is pure speculation on who you are saying is providing tunes with products that are going to damage our cars. Why can't this come out of the closet ? Why is it so hush hush ?

Let me ask you this. I have the VMP pulley and JLT CAI on my car. The tune is from VMP. With the vast inside information that you have on this subject, is this set up doing damage to my GT500 ?

Can you also please provide links to L&M, CJ, BBK and Tasca where their products and tunes can be purchased ? I am very interested in looking over what they have to offer.

[Grabber]

Evolution should be ok Rob I haven't herd of any problems with there tunes.
I have not heard about any specific tuner having a bad tune. Have you ? I used to have a Evo tune and one of my friends has one and he can't get his car thru DEQ with it because a bunch of parameters are turned off.

[68fastback]

Dan, I have never heard of the tuners that you mention. I have seen the term name L&M thrown around in posts, but never seen a link to there site. I have been reading your posts on this for sometime now and all that I can gather is pure speculation on who you are saying is providing tunes with products that are going to damage our cars. Why can't this come out of the closet ? Why is it so hush hush ?

Let me ask you this. I have the VMP pulley and JLT CAI on my car. The tune is from VMP. With the vast inside information that you have on this subject, is this set up doing damage to my GT500 ?

Can you also please provide links to L&M, CJ, BBK and Tasca where their products and tunes can be purchased ? I am very interested in looking over what they have to offer.

Rob, those are brands of throttle bodies I mentioned: BBK (http://www.bbkperformance.com/products/new-products/07-12-shelby-gt500-twin-65mm-throttle-body.html) is widely available from many vendors as is L&M (http://www.landm-airflow.com/). The CJ TB is from Ford Racing (and others) -- here's the 65mm (http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=11688)used on the CobraJet. Tasca Performance (http://www.tascamodshop.com/main.html)is in RI -- Dennis Gomes does their tuning.

I have no idea if your tune is doing damage to your GT500. If the MAF transfer curve is reflecting anything other dead-nuts native-flow bench flow date for your mass-air sensor in your specific JLT tube then, yes, there *can* be conditions under which it *can* do damage. That said, the JLT is very well-known MAF tube so it has most likely been accurately flowed and the flow data is likely well-known in the tuner community. If your MAF curve accurately reflects true flow data then that part of the tune is not a concern but there are several thousand parameters in a tune so no way to guess what else is in your tune without someone with the right hardware and software pulling it and looking at what's been done -- e.g. by comparing it to a stock and/or a relvant FRPP tune and having the software identify everything that's been changed and then evaluating if each change is appropriate. The reason why the MAF curve is so important is that virtually everything downstream in the tune is dependent on its accuracy (dunno if you've seen this writeup that explains why (http://stangsunited.com/showthread.php?3803-Warning-!!-Before-you-change-that-tune-read-this!&highlight=blackshelby+mass+flow)) -- and that's most all of engine management ...these are mass-air cars. Alternatively, you can ask your tuner what was changed and they'll generally tell you tell you -- if you think that would helpfull.

If you have one of the TBs I mentioned hopefully all the ETC controls in your tune have been left in tact (I would expect so) with the exception of typical driveability tweaks: tip-in, dashpot, etc -- since those TBs I mentioned don't require any of the bizarre hacks needed, for example, to make a monoblade act civilized and prevent MILs it would otherwise throw. The other mods you have don't require much tuning ...some table limit value changes and responsiveness/feel changes (throttle attack) ...and removing some of the softening in the stock tune (e.g. when shifting) ...but none of those should be a concern.

Now, realize what you asked me -- in essence you asked: someone changed any of up to several thousand parameters in my tune ...did any of those specifically put me in jeopardy? Ummm. Possibly, but likely not (with your mods), but who knows? :biggrin:

As I recall you have a stock TB, pulley, JLT MAF, exhaust ...likely you're fine, but no way to specualate. I''ve seen tunes on cars with changes that are simply unwarranted for the set-up but, apparently, were felt needed or, quite possibly, just ported over from another tune as the base for a custom tune ...which is apparently not unusual since some of the same tune changes seem to repeat in certain tunes.

[Grabber]

Dan, thanks for the info. My head is spinning now from overload. So what I have summarized from what you have told me is that I am ok. There are thousands of owners just like me that have a CAI and a pulley and tune from either VMP, JLT or EVO. 99% of us are trusting that those companies know what they are doing.

I feel that the pages and pages of data that you, Jimmy and bird man have been posting are importand and telling us that certain tuners are not competent. However no one wants to be the whistle blower. That is understandable, but very frustrating to owners like me. I keep waiting for "the rest of the story" but it never comes.

I am getting ready to order a Ford Racing CAI with the 2.59 VMP pulley and VMP tune for Tana's car for Christmas so this topic of tuning is on my mind. I can't even begin to count how many people that I know that have this same mod !

[68fastback]

Dan, thanks for the info. My head is spinning now from overload. So what I have summarized from what you have told me is that I am ok. There are thousands of owners just like me that have a CAI and a pulley and tune from either VMP, JLT or EVO. 99% of us are trusting that those companies know what they are doing.

I feel that the pages and pages of data that you, Jimmy and bird man have been posting are importand and telling us that certain tuners are not competent. However no one wants to be the whistle blower. That is understandable, but very frustrating to owners like me. I keep waiting for "the rest of the story" but it never comes.

I am getting ready to order a Ford Racing CAI with the 2.59 VMP pulley and VMP tune for Tana's car for Christmas so this topic of tuning is on my mind. I can't even begin to count how many people that I know that have this same mod !

...at one time over 50% of Americans assumed the guy in the White House knew what he was doing too. :biggrin:

....frustrating for sure ....since it's tied to the specific instance of the mods and the tune ...there's no way to characterize it generally and be fair in all cases --it's just not possible.

Tana's feeling she needs more power?! :yikes: ...well, allright! ;-) :banana:

If it was my car (which I know it's not) I'd spring for a FRPP TVS and know what I'm getting is right for virtually every condition/situation :shades: ...jmho.

[Joe G]

I am getting ready to order a Ford Racing CAI with the 2.59 VMP pulley and VMP tune for Tana's car for Christmas so this topic of tuning is on my mind. I can't even begin to count how many people that I know that have this same mod !BVM Performance can help you if you want. :tiphat:

[Joe G]

Dan, thanks for the info. My head is spinning now from overload. So what I have summarized from what you have told me is that I am ok. There are thousands of owners just like me that have a CAI and a pulley and tune from either VMP, JLT or EVO. 99% of us are trusting that those companies know what they are doing.

I feel that the pages and pages of data that you, Jimmy and bird man have been posting are importand and telling us that certain tuners are not competent. However no one wants to be the whistle blower. That is understandable, but very frustrating to owners like me. I keep waiting for "the rest of the story" but it never comes.


IMO the "story" (and the mechanical/engineering rational behind it) has been posted on many forums over the past 2 years - probably more.

There is a "correct" way of doing things - ie: following the lead of Ford and Ford Racing because they obviously know more about this stuff than all of the other tuners combined - and there are ways that "work" but aren't the right way and MAY lead to issues depending on the situation.

The problem comes when people (not just the tuners themselves) take this info personally and defend their tuner of choice and the thread goes downhill from there.


I'm sure it's just like your line of work - there are "correct" and proper ways of doing construction and there are ways that may "work" but you can't guarantee it will work under all conditions or for the long term.



In the end, it's your money and if you feel comfortable with a specific tuner/product go ahead and continue to use it. The info (especially the specific thread Dan referenced about the proper way to tune) is just that - info. Learn from it or dismiss it as BS. It's all good. :tiphat:

[Grabber]

In my line of work if you cut corners or make short cuts your name will be known....and soon no one hires you.

I was asking who is cutting the corners and making short cuts. That's all !

[Joe G]

In my line of work if you cut corners or make short cuts your name will be known....and soon no one hires you.

I was asking who is cutting the corners and making short cuts. That's all !

Marketing is a powerful tool, Rob. That's all I'll say.

[Grabber]

...at one time over 50% of Americans assumed the guy in the White House knew what he was doing too. :biggrin:

....frustrating for sure ....since it's tied to the specific instance of the mods and the tune ...there's no way to characterize it generally and be fair in all cases --it's just not possible.

Tana's feeling she needs more power?! :yikes: ...well, allright! ;-) :banana:

If it was my car (which I know it's not) I'd spring for a FRPP TVS and know what I'm getting is right for virtually every condition/situation :shades: ...jmho.

Dan,

Tana is asking me for a CAI and louder mufflers. She says she wants it to sound like my car. Last week a surprise gift showed up addressed to Mrs Tanabanana from Wes. He sent her a H pipe. That's what started it.

I'm trying to get the car paid off....before I put any money into mods. One more payment of $1,984 and the title will be ours. :woohoo:

[68fastback]

IMO the "story" (and the mechanical/engineering rational behind it) has been posted on many forums over the past 2 years - probably more.

There is a "correct" way of doing things - ie: following the lead of Ford and Ford Racing because they obviously know more about this stuff than all of the other tuners combined - and there are ways that "work" but aren't the right way and MAY lead to issues depending on the situation.

The problem comes when people (not just the tuners themselves) take this info personally and defend their tuner of choice and the thread goes downhill from there.


I'm sure it's just like your line of work - there are "correct" and proper ways of doing construction and there are ways that may "work" but you can't guarantee it will work under all conditions or for the long term.



In the end, it's your money and if you feel comfortable with a specific tuner/product go ahead and continue to use it. The info (especially the specific thread Dan referenced about the proper way to tune) is just that - info. Learn from it or dismiss it as BS. It's all good. :tiphat:

Exactly ...and it's always easier to 'decide' it must be bad gas because, otherwise, it must be the unthinkable. Ford tests like no tuner can.


In my line of work if you cut corners or make short cuts your name will be known....and soon no one hires you.

I was asking who is cutting the corners and making short cuts. That's all !

...but in your like of work it's accepted that if a wall just falls down it's because the wall wasn't done right -- not likely because of bad nails...


Dan,

Tana is asking me for a CAI and louder mufflers. She says she wants it to sound like my car. Last week a surprise gift showed up addressed to Mrs Tanabanana from Wes. He sent her a H pipe. That's what started it.

I'm trying to get the car paid off....before I put any money into mods. One more payment of $1,984 and the title will be ours. :woohoo:

Wow!! Awesome -- that was fast!!

Maybe Tana will secretly upgrade :weg: ;-)

[Grabber]

I just heard from SteelSteeds about his EVO tune that he could not get them to help him with. His GT500 went right thru DEQ with the VMP tune. Per Lance "Sailed through with flying colors thanks to Justin from VMP".

[68fastback]

:wtg:

[The Bone]

Here in CA I will have to put the stock air box on and return to the stock tune to pass smog. JLT doesn't have a CARB sticker so it would flunk the visual inspection.

[Joker]

Here in CA I will have to put the stock air box on and return to the stock tune to pass smog. JLT doesn't have a CARB sticker so it would flunk the visual inspection.

That's why I have the FRPP on mine. Has the CARB sticker.

[Cobra Drifter]

Stickers smickers.... I pass the smogg for both cars no problem :look:

[Joker]

Stickers smickers.... I pass the smogg for both cars no problem :look:

:spend:

[Cobra Drifter]

Actually it doesnt cost that much more than regular smogg test. Plus no hassles of reverting parts back to stock and going to a test place. :tiphat:

[Birdman]

Stickers smickers.... I pass the smogg for both cars no problem :look:

What does the test consist of in CA? Just plug into the com port and check for codes?

[Cobra Drifter]

I dont know what kind of "tests" you get done (ROFL) but ours are just the normal dyno tailsniffer connections

[Birdman]

In CT they actually connect their system to the car's EEC port and run it through a series of checks for all codes including the P1000 sytem readyness check. Not sure what else they are looking for if anything.

That means if anything in the tune is turned off they will see it. (like rear O2's for example)

[The Bone]

They plug the computer into the car and and check the emissions system. They check the fuel cap. run it on the dyno. and do a visual to make sure all emission components are on the car. I think I payed $65 last time.

[CH53Driver]

I like to just walk into the Smog check station with a cut off horses head under my arm and make them an offer they can't refuse.

[Darkside]

I like to just walk into the Smog check station with a cut off horses head under my arm and make them an offer they can't refuse.

I use a 5 gal jug of water instead of the horses head. Less messy and smells much better.

[Joe G]

I wouldn't live in a state where you have to test your car every year. :logical:

[Cobra Drifter]

I wouldn't live in a state where you have to test your car every year. :logical:

in CA the test is only every 2 years after the first 5 if its bought new :p

[CH53Driver]

I use a 5 gal jug of water instead of the horses head. Less messy and smells much better.

I like the dramatic effect. :shades:

:giggle:

[VaporDude]

In MO, you only have to test your car if it is more than 5 years old, then every 2 years after that. In the rural area, no smog tests are needed except you have to have the cats installed.

[hellfyr]

One of the few things Jesse did right here in his governor stint... elimination of vehicle pollution testing... I'm sure it will return sometime in the future when a tree-hugger takes office, but for now get to live wild and free... but, we are still supposed to have cats. Figure I have 3 at home, should counter-act the 2 missing from the car. :)

Rod

[68fastback]

:rofl3: ...just keep them in the trunk :giggle:

[CH53Driver]

One of the few things Jesse did right here in his governor stint... elimination of vehicle pollution testing... I'm sure it will return sometime in the future when a tree-hugger takes office, but for now get to live wild and free... but, we are still supposed to have cats. Figure I have 3 at home, should counter-act the 2 missing from the car. :)

Rod

If the law doesn't specify that the cats need to be installed I would just carry them in the trunk. :shades:

That, or just stuff BadCat into the trunk. :look:

[Joe G]

That, or just stuff BadCat into the trunk. :look:Is that where he's been lately? :doh2:

[CH53Driver]

Is that where he's been lately? :doh2:

I dunno. Ask :monkey:.


:look: