Problem with the Taurus X....

[Joe G]

:nonono:


Ok, driving home tonight from helping Davey at the rental house and had a problem.

Here's the situation:
- driving about 60mph with the cruise on
- engine is about 1700rpm at this speed with the 6-speed auto
- going up a slight incline so the tranny had to downshift

This is where the problem started.

I could feel the tranny start to downshift when all of a sudden the car started to shake. It was like the tranny didn't shift right, so I immediately hit the brake to take off the cruise and the car was still shaking.

I pressed on the accelerator and got almost no power. It would (barely) hold speed (now about 40mph), but every time I hit the gas there was no power.

I pulled over and shifted to Neutral to see if the engine would idle better - no change.

I shifted into Park - again, no change. The car was sputtering like it wanted to die.

I shut the car off, turned off the headlights and left it for about 30 seconds.

I turned the key - and the car fired right up. Idle was back to normal. Full power when I hit the gas.

I let it idle about a minute, then shifted into Drive and drove off. Car was back to normal.


I didn't want to use the cruise again, so I just drove without it between 55-60mph.

No problem... until I hit another slight hill and I had to give it gas.


Car did the exact same thing as before - right when the tranny was downshifting it started sputtering, shaking and bucking.


I pulled over, shifted into Park and turned the car off. Let it sit about a minute, then re-started it.


This time the engine light stayed on and the car didn't idle very well. I turned it off and sat for a few more minutes, then re-started it. No change - idle was still crappy and engine light stayed on. Tried a 3rd time - same thing.


I looked in the owners manual and it said if the engine light was flashing (it was) then I could drive it but gently and without hard acceleration, so I drove the rest of the way home about 40mph, hit the "O/D off" switch on the shifter, and it was ok - power was still down, and it had a hard idle as you'd slow down for a stop.

I stopped at the next gas station and checked under the hood. No unusual smell. Coolant and oil was fine. Everything on the air intake seemed plugged in and tight like it should.

Drove the rest of the way home slowly and parked it.

I don't remember seeing the engine light come on the first time it happened, but now it won't go off and the idle is still crappy and seems down on power - almost like the tranny is slipping.



HELP!! (before Mrs G keels me! :rollingpin:)

:banghead:



Info on the car:
3.5L DOHC V6
6 speed auto
Front wheel drive

[Gr8snkbite]

:ohsnap:


Do you have a code reader....maybe tranny slipping or sensors telling computer bogus crapola....

[Joe G]

:ohsnap:


Do you have a code reader....maybe tranny slipping or sensors telling computer bogus crapola....I thought of that, but it's in storage up north with the GT500. :banghead:

[Gr8snkbite]

:nonono:

Time for a second one.....their pretty cheap.....does Dave have one....I'd send you mine if it'll help..

[Shlbylvr]

Can't you go to Autozone or the likes? sometimes they have code readers..

At least you can get the codes and do research.

[Gr8snkbite]

:goodpost:

[Gr8snkbite]

Try this info joe......seems similar in nature.....

http://www.myfordfreestyle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3842

[Joe G]

Try this info joe......seems similar in nature.....

http://www.myfordfreestyle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3842I've been looking on that forum too.

That one doesn't match my symptoms - I have the check engine light and have the rough idle.

I'm gonna check to see if I can find a scanner tomorrow....

[Gr8snkbite]

I've been reading other data on the car......lots of tsb's out there....seems this vehicle has be plagued since day one....:sofa:

[68fastback]

Joe, just saaw this thread -- sucks!!

...check out this link for what could be similar Taurus-X tranny complaints (http://www.aboutautomobile.com/Complaint/2008/Ford/Taurus+X/Automatic+Transmission)

Then check out Auto Trans under the TSB tab (http://www.aboutautomobile.com/TSB/2008/Ford/Taurus+X/Automatic+Transmission)If your codes (when you can pull them) match some of those, this might be the problem.

Actually, it sounds like an interface/electrical control problem maybe with the tranny harness or a servo ...like the clutch-pak solenoid isn't getting controlled properly or something like that. Just a total guess since it could be lots of things, but how the problem seem to come and go (yours and a couple of the complaints in the first link above) seems to be something electrical and/or servo related -- dunno.

Makes you wonder if the delaer knew of this problem ...who knows.

[mustang loco]

wow,sorry to see your having a problem with the car Joe,hope you find the solution quick(and not to serious ...)

[Tommy Gun]

Joe, just saaw this thread -- sucks!!

...check out this link for what could be similar Taurus-X tranny complaints (http://www.aboutautomobile.com/Complaint/2008/Ford/Taurus+X/Automatic+Transmission)

Then check out Auto Trans under the TSB tab (http://www.aboutautomobile.com/TSB/2008/Ford/Taurus+X/Automatic+Transmission)If your codes (when you can pull them) match some of those, this might be the problem.

Actually, it sounds like an interface/electrical control problem maybe with the tranny harness or a servo ...like the clutch-pak solenoid isn't getting controlled properly or something like that. Just a total guess since it could be lots of things, but how the problem seem to come and go (yours and a couple of the complaints in the first link above) seems to be something electrical and/or servo related -- dunno.

Makes you wonder if the delaer knew of this problem ...who knows.

I see some of those complaints mention fluid under the car and thinking it was power steering ....but it was a trans problem. Makes me wonder about the dealer saying they fixed a power steering problem before he bought the car?


Another concern is all he people saying the car will "roll back" on an incline while in drive!




Do you have a warranty I hope w/ the people you bought it from?


.

[Carnut]

As you know, getting the code read is the first step.

In the old days, these systems would indicate a fuel problem, maybe a clogged filter (explaining why it would run after you shut it off for a while).

[Tommy Gun]

As you know, getting the code read is the first step.

In the old days, these systems would indicate a fuel problem, maybe a clogged filter (explaining why it would run after you shut it off for a while).

This is a good point on a used car also.

Many of them may sit around for months before someone drives them.

Stuff could settle in the tank then get stirred up when some sucker buys the car. :giggle:




:look:

[The Bone]

with today's cars all you can do is change spark plugs and oil for everything else you have to take it to the dealer.
Joe you did buy the extended warranty right?
Never buy a used car and not buy the warranty it may cost some big money but worth it in the end
Sorry you are having this problem G. Could just be something under the car unplugged when they did the steering rack

[68fastback]

The AAA warranties are awesome. Mechanic friend in Queens told me they have never had a problem with collecting from AAA on anything.

Joe if you were to buy an AAA warranty and this problem turns up a week later :innocent: it would not be unusual given it a new-to-you purchase and that's when folks buy warranties, but the dealer should eat this. Clearly the problem was there all along -- whether the dealer knew it or not is another question. You may have State protections too since it was bought from a dealer, not a privte sale. Many states mandate such to avoid 'planned' delayed-discovery problems like this. IN AG's office (http://www.in.gov/attorneygeneral/2353.htm)should be helpfull in summarizing your rights...

...found this on eHow re used cars purchased from a dealer in IN:Indiana Lemon Law

Used car sales are regulated by the Motor Vehicle Protection Act, also know as the "Indiana lemon law." The law protects consumers when vehicles fail to meet certain basic standards, according to Indiana attorney Rick Zoeller. The language specifically applies to customers who have bought or leased cars and light trucks within the past 18 months, with 18,000 or fewer miles driven, according to Zoeller.

[Birdman]

:nonono:


Ok, driving home tonight from helping Davey at the rental house and had a problem.

Here's the situation:
- driving about 60mph with the cruise on
- engine is about 1700rpm at this speed with the 6-speed auto
- going up a slight incline so the tranny had to downshift

This is where the problem started.

I could feel the tranny start to downshift when all of a sudden the car started to shake. It was like the tranny didn't shift right, so I immediately hit the brake to take off the cruise and the car was still shaking.

I pressed on the accelerator and got almost no power. It would (barely) hold speed (now about 40mph), but every time I hit the gas there was no power.

I pulled over and shifted to Neutral to see if the engine would idle better - no change.

I shifted into Park - again, no change. The car was sputtering like it wanted to die.

I shut the car off, turned off the headlights and left it for about 30 seconds.

I turned the key - and the car fired right up. Idle was back to normal. Full power when I hit the gas.

I let it idle about a minute, then shifted into Drive and drove off. Car was back to normal.


I didn't want to use the cruise again, so I just drove without it between 55-60mph.

No problem... until I hit another slight hill and I had to give it gas.


Car did the exact same thing as before - right when the tranny was downshifting it started sputtering, shaking and bucking.


I pulled over, shifted into Park and turned the car off. Let it sit about a minute, then re-started it.


This time the engine light stayed on and the car didn't idle very well. I turned it off and sat for a few more minutes, then re-started it. No change - idle was still crappy and engine light stayed on. Tried a 3rd time - same thing.


I looked in the owners manual and it said if the engine light was flashing (it was) then I could drive it but gently and without hard acceleration, so I drove the rest of the way home about 40mph, hit the "O/D off" switch on the shifter, and it was ok - power was still down, and it had a hard idle as you'd slow down for a stop.

I stopped at the next gas station and checked under the hood. No unusual smell. Coolant and oil was fine. Everything on the air intake seemed plugged in and tight like it should.

Drove the rest of the way home slowly and parked it.

I don't remember seeing the engine light come on the first time it happened, but now it won't go off and the idle is still crappy and seems down on power - almost like the tranny is slipping.



HELP!! (before Mrs G keels me! :rollingpin:)

:banghead:



Info on the car:
3.5L DOHC V6
6 speed auto
Front wheel drive

Did you try manually downshifting it out of the O/D gear. It sounds like it is not downshifting out of O/D.

[VaporDude]

Joe is still at the Toyota dealership waiting for them to open. I guess he never got the service records or Car Fax report on it.

[68fastback]

I've been looking on that forum too.

That one doesn't match my symptoms - I have the check engine light and have the rough idle.

I'm gonna check to see if I can find a scanner tomorrow....

Joe, try the Autozone in Greensburg (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/storelocator/storeLocatorMain.jsp?targetPage=storeLocatorResult s&_requestid=1334679)...I think Autozone will pull the codes for free.

[Alloy Dave]

Ok, I'll give an update. Joe spent a lot of time helping me at the rental yesterday during a very difficult day...I'm sure he was tired when he got home. He told me about the issue, and I suggested it sounded like something with the OD trans. I had a code reader at home that I gave him last night...so he's probably trying to read the code today. I'm sure he'll update when he knows more.

[68fastback]

:wtg:

[Joe G]

Did you try manually downshifting it out of the O/D gear. It sounds like it is not downshifting out of O/D.Yes I did (it was in the first post).

[Joe G]

Ok, I'll give an update. Joe spent a lot of time helping me at the rental yesterday during a very difficult day...I'm sure he was tired when he got home. He told me about the issue, and I suggested it sounded like something with the OD trans. I had a code reader at home that I gave him last night...so he's probably trying to read the code today. I'm sure he'll update when he knows more.

Thanks Dave.

Yes, Dave is now my newest bestest friend since TG is being mean to me.


I pulled the codes this morning. There were 8 of them. :yikes:

P0305 - cylinder 5 misfire detected

P0353 - ignition coil C primary/secondary circuit

P0355 - ignition coil E primary/secondary circuit

P0356 - ignition coil F primary/secondary circuit


... then it had the same 4 as above, but with a "pd" after it which the code reader said means it's a "pending code - some system/component in the vehicle has been detected as operating outside it's allowable tolerance and has alerted the computer that, if it is detected again, it will illuminate the check engine light."

[Joe G]

I guess he never got the service records or Car Fax report on it.Carfax was clean and the dealership showed me all the checks they did before the sale.

[ati]

Thanks Dave.

Yes, Dave is now my newest bestest friend since TG is being mean to me.


I pulled the codes this morning. There were 8 of them. :yikes:

P0305 - cylinder 5 misfire detected

P0353 - ignition coil C primary/secondary circuit

P0355 - ignition coil E primary/secondary circuit

P0356 - ignition coil F primary/secondary circuit


... then it had the same 4 as above, but with a "pd" after it which the code reader said means it's a "pending code - some system/component in the vehicle has been detected as operating outside it's allowable tolerance and has alerted the computer that, if it is detected again, it will illuminate the check engine light."

OBD-II Trouble Code Technical Description

Ignition Coil C Primary/Secondary Circuit Malfunction
What does that mean?

The COP (coil on plug) ignition system is what is used on most modern engines. There is an individual coil for each cylinder that is controlled by the PCM (powertrain control module). It eliminates the need for spark plug wires by putting the coil right above the sparkplug. Two wires are dedicated to each coil. One is a battery feed usually from the power distribution center. The other wire is the coil driver circuit from the PCM. The PCM grounds/ungrounds this circuit to activate or deactivate the coil. The coil driver circuit is monitored by the PCM for faults
If an open or a short is detected in the driver circuit for coil number 3, a P0353 may set. Also, depending on the vehicle, the PCM may also shut down the fuel injector to the cylinder also.

Symptoms

Symptoms of a P0353 DTC may include:

Engine misfire may be present or intermittent
Causes

Potential causes of a P0353 code include:

Faulty Powertrain Control Module
Possible Solutions

Is the engine misfiring presently? If not, the problem is likely intermittent. Try wiggle testing the wiring at the #3 coil and along the wiring harness to the PCM. If manipulating the wiring causes the misfire to surface, repair the wiring problem. Check for poor connection at the coil connector. Verify the harness isn't misrouted or chafing on anything. Repair as necessary
If the engine is misfiring presently, stop the engine and disconnect the #3 coil wiring connector. Then start the engine and check for a driver signal to the #3 coil. Using a scope will give you a visual pattern to observe, but since most people don't have access to one there's an easier way. Use a Voltmeter in AC Hertz scale and see if there's a Hz reading of between 5 and 20 or so that indicates the driver is working. If there is a Hertz signal, then replace the #3 ignition coil. It's likely bad. If you don't detect any frequency signal from the PCM on the ignition coil driver circuit indicating the PCM is grounding/ungrounding the circuit (or there is no visible pattern on the scope if you have one) then leave the coil disconnected and check for DC voltage on the driver circuit at the ignition coil connector. If there is any significant voltage on that wire then there is a short to voltage somewhere. Find the short and repair it.
If there is no voltage on the driver circuit, then turn the ignition off. Disconnect the PCM connector and check the continuity of the driver between the PCM and the coil. If there is no continuity repair the open or short to ground in the circuit. If continuity is present, then check for resistance between ground and the ignition coil connector. There should be infinite resistance. If there isn't, repair the short to ground in the coil driver circuit
NOTE: If the ignition coil driver signal wire is not open or shorted to voltage or ground and there is no trigger signal to the coil then suspect a faulty PCM coil driver. Also keep in mind that if the PCM driver is at fault, there may be a wiring problem that caused the PCM failure. It's a good idea to do the above check after PCM replacement to verify there won't be a repeat failure. If you find that the engine isn't misfiring, the coil is being triggered properly but P0353 is continually being reset, there is the possibility that the PCM coil monitoring system may be faulty

[68fastback]

Thanks Dave.

Yes, Dave is now my newest bestest friend since TG is being mean to me.


I pulled the codes this morning. There were 8 of them. :yikes:

P0305 - cylinder 5 misfire detected

P0353 - ignition coil C primary/secondary circuit

P0355 - ignition coil E primary/secondary circuit

P0356 - ignition coil F primary/secondary circuit


... then it had the same 4 as above, but with a "pd" after it which the code reader said means it's a "pending code - some system/component in the vehicle has been detected as operating outside it's allowable tolerance and has alerted the computer that, if it is detected again, it will illuminate the check engine light."

Joe, read pg 124 (below the box) in the 2008 MC Prin of Operations manual HERE (http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/diagnostics/pdf/OBDSM804.pdf) ...may be something like a coil harness or coil problem? Also explains why you shut it off and then it's ok for little bit (resets after30 seconds) ...and the loss of power is the ECU turning off pairs of cylinders to protect the cats. Wonder if they chaanged the plugs recently and damaged the coils (all too common) or loose connection or harness fault ...or power washed the engine and got water arround the coil ...buddy of mine had horrible misfire problems after the dealer changed the plugs and 'cleaned' the engine. After lots of pi$$ing and moaning by the dealer and refusing to change out the pieces, they eventually changed all the plugs and coils packs and the problem magically went away ...but it could also be wiring, I would think ...anthing that can affect coil primary as I'm reading it. Just my guess.

The good news, I think, is that since the codes do not match any of the known TSB problems, this is likely an isolated instance which is why I'm thinking it might have been caused by something the dealer did to pretty the car up for sale and they might never have seen the problem unless they took a decent ride in it.

From MC ops manual:

"If an ignition coil primary circuit failure is detected for a single cylinder or coil pair, the fuel injector to that cylinder orcylinder pair will be shut off for 30 seconds to prevent catalyst damage. Up to two cylinders may be disabled at the
same time on 6 and 8 cylinder engines and one cylinder is disabled on 4 cylinder engines. After 30 seconds, the
injector is re-enabled. If an ignition coil primary circuit failure is again detected, (about 0.10 seconds), the fuel
injector will be shut off again and the process will repeat until the fault is no longer present. Note that engine misfire
can trigger the same type of fuel injector disablement."

[68fastback]

...just saw Alan's post ...I was apparently posting while he was ...I think we're on the same track.

[Joe G]

Ok... I'll check out these coils.

Which ones are they?

I don't know which coil letter is on which cylinder - or what the cylinder numbering system is.


Engine is mounted so that I can easily get to 3 cylinders, while the other 3 are hidden under the intake.


http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/magazine/images/2008tarusx/2008FordTaurusXEngine01FixedSmall.jpg

[VaporDude]

I would just check them all Joe. Since you have access to three of them realitively easy, I would check them first. I would think it would be the either the COP or the plug before I would look into the wiring. The wiring is usually one the last pieces to a puzzle to go bad.

[Birdman]

Ok... I'll check out these coils.

Which ones are they?

I don't know which coil letter is on which cylinder - or what the cylinder numbering system is.


Engine is mounted so that I can easily get to 3 cylinders, while the other 3 are hidden under the intake.


http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/magazine/images/2008tarusx/2008FordTaurusXEngine01FixedSmall.jpg

Just replace them all and be done with it....my advice.....and plugs too!

[ati]

Joe,
I don't have a manual but I googled it and this is what I found:

What is the cylinder layout and firing order for Taurus 3.0 and 3.8 engines?




Firing Order: 1-4-2-5-3-6

Cylinder numbers:
1-2-3
4-5-6
(Frt. Of vehicle)

Coil Numbering
--4 PIN--
--Connector--
-----------------
--1--- 2--- 3--
----------------
--5--- 6--- 4--
----------------

* NOTE the irregular sequence on the 5-6-4 side. Weird, but that's the way it is.

[Joe G]

Joe,
I don't have a manual but I googled it and this is what I found:

What is the cylinder layout and firing order for Taurus 3.0 and 3.8 engines?




Firing Order: 1-4-2-5-3-6

Cylinder numbers:
1-2-3
4-5-6
(Frt. Of vehicle)

Coil Numbering
--4 PIN--
--Connector--
-----------------
--1--- 2--- 3--
----------------
--5--- 6--- 4--
----------------

* NOTE the irregular sequence on the 5-6-4 side. Weird, but that's the way it is.Yeah, I found that, but those aren't the engine I have.

I have the 3.5 DOHC that's on the new Taurus.

[Joe G]

I'm on hold with the Toyota dealer right now....




Get Darkside ready in the bullpen in case I need him... :trouble:

[68fastback]

Just replace them all and be done with it....my advice.....and plugs too!

+1

...I'd also check out your rights with IN AG's office asap ...the dealer should be eating this, imo. ...it was not a private sale. Even if you change it out yourself maybe you want to preserve what rights you may have in IN. The car was not fit for sale and there are limits on what a delaer can shift to buyer ...even with an "as-is" clause.

[Joe G]

+1

...I'd also check out your rights with IN AG's office asap ...the dealer should be eating this, imo. ...it was not a private sale. Even if you change it out yourself maybe you want to preserve what rights you may have in IN. The car was not fit for sale and there are limits on what a delaer can shift to buyer ...even with an "as-is" clause.

:iagree:

They just told me "bring it in and we'll take care of it."

I said that's kinda hard as I'm 2 hours away. :doh2:


Stand by....

[68fastback]

:iagree:

They just told me "bring it in and we'll take care of it."

I said that's kinda hard as I'm 2 hours away. :doh2:


Stand by....

Maybe your insurance will cover flatbedding it?

[Tommy Gun]

Just replace them all and be done with it....my advice.....and plugs too!


A set of coil packs for that car would be almost $400. :faint:

.

[Joe G]

A set of coil packs for that car would be almost $400. :faint:

.:spend:

I'm waiting to hear back from the dealer on what's gonna happen.... :waiting:

[Birdman]

A set of coil packs for that car would be almost $400. :faint:

.

Thats crazy all 8 for the GT500 is less than $250...rip-off!!!

[Joe G]

Good news (I hope)... there is a 30 day-1000 mile comprehensive warranty on the car. I'm trying to get a full copy of it (stupid me for not having it... :banghead:), but the Service Mgr said if it is the coils or PCM that those would be covered.

Service mgr told me to get it to a good shop who can diagnose exactly what's wrong, and then they'll get it approved for them to do the work.




I'm praying this doesn't turn out :censored:ed up! :pray:

[Joe G]

:ohthedrama: Did you say a while back that you could pull info on a car (TSB's etc) by VIN?

[tekheavy]

Did you say a while back that you could pull info on a car (TSB's etc) by VIN?

I used to be able to run an OASIS on any Ford vehicle. It would show you all work done on that vehicle by any Ford dealerships and any TSB's for the vehicle. Unfortunately, I don't have access to that anymore. If I'm not mistaken, Grabber may have access to it. Also, you can probably go to any Ford dealership and give them the VIN and see if they're run an OASIS for you.

[Joe G]

I used to be able to run an OASIS on any Ford vehicle. It would show you all work done on that vehicle by any Ford dealerships and any TSB's for the vehicle. Unfortunately, I don't have access to that anymore. If I'm not mistaken, Grabber may have access to it. Also, you can probably go to any Ford dealership and give them the VIN and see if they're run an OASIS for you.Thanks Tek. :tiphat:

I'll see if Grabby is around... if not, I'll call the local dealer.

[Tommy Gun]

Thats crazy all 8 for the GT500 is less than $250...rip-off!!!

Different configuration. :look:

[Tommy Gun]

Good news (I hope)... there is a 30 day-1000 mile comprehensive warranty on the car. I'm trying to get a full copy of it (stupid me for not having it... :banghead:), but the Service Mgr said if it is the coils or PCM that those would be covered.

Service mgr told me to get it to a good shop who can diagnose exactly what's wrong, and then they'll get it approved for them to do the work.




I'm praying this doesn't turn out :censored:ed up! :pray:


It will work out fine, don't sweat it. :wtg:

.

[Joe G]

It will work out fine, don't sweat it. :wtg:

.I hope so buddy, or Mrs G is gonna keel somebody... and I hope she doesn't start with me! :yikes:

[The Bone]

Call the dealer first. You haven't had it a week yet

[Joe G]

Call the dealer first. You haven't had it a week yetTime to read back... I did that this afternoon. :buttkick:

[Birdman]

Best to just take it to the closest Ford dealer and have them diagnose it and give an estimate then get Toyota to approve the repairs there. You'll probably need an appointment to get the car in there.

[Joe G]

Best to just take it to the closest Ford dealer and have them diagnose it and give an estimate then get Toyota to approve the repairs there. You'll probably need an appointment to get the car in there.I thought about that, but the nearest Ford dealer is about 12 miles away. Will I do more damage by driving it that far?

[68fastback]

Good news (I hope)... there is a 30 day-1000 mile comprehensive warranty on the car. I'm trying to get a full copy of it (stupid me for not having it... :banghead:), but the Service Mgr said if it is the coils or PCM that those would be covered.

Service mgr told me to get it to a good shop who can diagnose exactly what's wrong, and then they'll get it approved for them to do the work.




I'm praying this doesn't turn out :censored:ed up! :pray:

I'd use a local Ford dealer? :yes: ...you have a right to have it diagnosed and fixed correctly.

(Indiana law provides for both a general and a fitness/merchantability warranty when any dealer sells a used car (anyone who sells more than 3 cars/year is a delaer under Indiana law). It gets more sticky if there was an "as-is" clause, but you still have some rights under Indiana law (was doing some reading ;-)).

[edit:] I see Birdy and I think alike re Ford dealer :wtg:

[68fastback]

I thought about that, but the nearest Ford dealer is about 12 miles away. Will I do more damage by driving it that far?

Doubt it. The ECU is protecting the cats (that's the problem, it seems). Even if you have to shut it off a few times, no prob, I think.

If it's front wheel drive, it can be easily towed or trollied (do you have towing on your policy -- often up to 50 miles is a freebie).

[Shlbylvr]

Thanks Tek. :tiphat:

I'll see if Grabby is around... if not, I'll call the local dealer.

Grabby can, he did mine when I bought the Mustang.

[Grabber]

Thanks Tek. :tiphat:

I'll see if Grabby is around... if not, I'll call the local dealer.

My access is now toast.

[Joe G]

:backontopic:


I have a service appointment tomorrow with the nearest Ford dealer to diagnose the problem.

[68fastback]

:banana: ...hope it's an easy one

...Joe, just for the heck of it, if oyu get a chance see if you can you put a VOM on the battery and see what the voltage is (don't start it first) ...then start it and take another reading (with accessories off) ...if those both look good than harness/coilpack problems would seem to be the area but would not be the first time odd results were caused by batter/alternator weirdness.

Sitting for at least 8-12 hours a good battery should show over 12.45 (12.6s is typical -- it will lose about .01/day sitting after the the first 12 hours or so with *no* parasitic drain) ...while running-charging it should show over 14.0 (14.4-14.67 is typical of Fords). If it's been sitting for days and you've been using any accessories (lights, door open for a while, etc) the battery might show less than 12.45, but if it's below 12.2 some sensors/systems can start getting weird ...in fact some ECU system checks won't run at all unless the key-on-engine-off battery voltage was over 11.0 ...and the injector test is one of those. Always good to rule out flaky battery/alt beforehand.

[VaporDude]

Yep....cars do weird things anymore if the batteries are not up to par. Even if they are off just a bit, it can cause headaches. In the Milan, my air bags light kept coming on. I changed the battery and it stayed off. The old battery started the car with no problem, just wasn't enough to keep all the components happy.

[Joe G]

My meter is still packed away in storage. :doh2:

[VaporDude]

My meter is still packed away in storage. :doh2:

Go to Sears and have them do a load test.

[Joe G]

Go to Sears and have them do a load test.I'm not taking the car out until tomorrow when I drive it to the Ford dealer. I'll let them do all the tests.

[Carnut]

I'm not taking the car out until tomorrow when I drive it to the Ford dealer. I'll let them do all the tests.

Good plan.

[Joe G]

Good plan.:webers:

I don't wanna give them any reason to wiggle out of the warranty. :trouble:

[The Bone]

This serenely sucks Joe. Looking forward to the outcome of this.

[Birdman]

I'm not taking the car out until tomorrow when I drive it to the Ford dealer. I'll let them do all the tests.


Good plan.


:iagree:

[Joe G]

This serenely sucks Joe. Looking forward to the outcome of this.


:iagree::tiphat:

[68fastback]

I'm not taking the car out until tomorrow when I drive it to the Ford dealer. I'll let them do all the tests.

Hope it goes well, Joe!!

[Joe G]

Well, good news and bad news....

[Joe G]

Yep... it got great ratings which is one reason we liked it.

[Joe G]

Bad news.... won't get the car back until tomorrow at the earliest. :waiting:

[68fastback]

...what's the good news? :waiting:

[Joe G]

...what's the good news? :waiting:Ok... I won't make you wait for it anymore... :giggle:


..





..




One coil was bad. Can't remember if he said he was replacing or repairing (can you even repair it??) the PCM.





..





Good news was that it was covered 100% under Ford warranty. There was a TSB on some part of it. Even though I'm past the 5 yrs/60k miles warranty, I guess it's covered under a longer "emissions warranty" he said.



:woohoo:


They're even doing a tune up - new plugs etc.





No charge to Joe G.

:ohyes:

[VaporDude]

That's good news Joe. I am sure they will reprogram the PCM with up to date code. Now you don''t have to worry about changing the plugs again.

[68fastback]

AWESOME!!!! :banana:

...probably replaced the coilpack (should be totally sealed so not way to fix it I think).

[Joe G]

Yep, replacing the coil. I can't remember what he had said about the PCM... but somethings wrong with that too.

[Alloy Dave]

Yep, replacing the coil. I can't remember what he had said about the PCM... but somethings wrong with that too.I would think that a PCM is an R&R item. Those things are typically sealed in some sort of muck that solidifies.

Great ending to the story. Could it be that driving it to my rental ruined it? :conspiracy:

[Joe G]

Could it be that driving it to my rental ruined it? :conspiracy:Probably. :nonono:

[Birdman]

Ok... I won't make you wait for it anymore... :giggle:


One coil was bad. Can't remember if he said he was replacing or repairing (can you even repair it??) the PCM.

Good news was that it was covered 100% under Ford warranty. There was a TSB on some part of it. Even though I'm past the 5 yrs/60k miles warranty, I guess it's covered under a longer "emissions warranty" he said.

:woohoo:


They're even doing a tune up - new plugs etc.

No charge to Joe G.

:ohyes:


Replace the coils and plugs...Gee where did I see that written before....hmmmmm :shades:

Change the PCM...? maybe they should just alter the mass air curve to get the A/F right......:haha:

[VaporDude]

Replace the coils and plugs...Gee where did I see that written before....hmmmmm :shades:

Change the PCM...? maybe they should just alter the mass air curve to get the A/F right......:haha:

Yes but now he gets them replaced at no cost to him. :grin:

[Joe G]

Yes but now he gets them replaced at no cost to him. :grin:Exactly!

[The Bone]

Did you get to take it to Ford or back to toyota

[Joe G]

Did you get to take it to Ford or back to toyota:ford:

[Joe G]

Just replace them all and be done with it....my advice.....and plugs too!BTW... the Ford dealer is only replacing the ONE bad coil. I asked 3 times about needing to replace all the coils - he said it's not necessary.

All plugs will be replaced (and the intake gasket since that has to be removed to get to the back 3 cylinders), but not all of the coils.

Is this ok?

[mustang loco]

Good news to see everything's getting fixed and "covered" too:woohoo:,Joe had a bad coil on the Avalanche too last yr and finally just replaced that faulty one cause replacing all of them gets a bit expensive,jmho!!

[Carnut]

Glad to hear this is fixed at no cost to you.

[The Bone]

Joe one coil is fine. these things last a long time. However since its a big deal to change the one you might want to change the other 2 that are back there

[Joe G]

Just got back from picking up the TaurusX.

:woohoo:


She purr's like a kitten now.... or in the case of "Keith Thomas", purr's like a cougar. :weg:

[ati]

:wtg:

[Birdman]

BTW... the Ford dealer is only replacing the ONE bad coil. I asked 3 times about needing to replace all the coils - he said it's not necessary.

All plugs will be replaced (and the intake gasket since that has to be removed to get to the back 3 cylinders), but not all of the coils.

Is this ok?


Joe one coil is fine. these things last a long time. However since its a big deal to change the one you might want to change the other 2 that are back there

OK yes , wise NO. I agree with Art ...at least replace the other two that are a pain to get access to. If one went bad maybe others will follow.

[Joe G]

OK yes , wise NO. I agree with Art ...at least replace the other two that are a pain to get access to. If one went bad maybe others will follow.Too late... already have it back.

They said they "tested" the other 5 coils and all were checked out ok, so I guess I'll just have to cross my fingers on it.

[Birdman]

Too late... already have it back.

They said they "tested" the other 5 coils and all were checked out ok, so I guess I'll just have to cross my fingers on it.

You should get yourself a scanner so if you get another "misfire code" you'll know what to look for.

[Joe G]

You should get yourself a scanner so if you get another "misfire code" you'll know what to look for.My friend Alloy Dave gave me an extra one he had. :wtg:

[68fastback]

...glad to hear it's running great, Joe!!

[mustang loco]

...glad to hear it's running great, Joe!!

same here bud'!!

[The Bone]

Coil packs on top of spark plugs. coil packs under intake manifold. Where are spark plugs again :nonono:

[Tommy Gun]

The intake hangs over one cylinder bank so it has to be removed for access.

[Joe G]

The intake hangs over one cylinder bank so it has to be removed for access.:iagree:

[Grabber]

Glad this all worked out !

[onecrazydog]

Shoulda' bought a Ford...



Oh wait, nm...


:sneaking2:

[Birdman]

Shoulda' bought it from Ford...



Oh wait, nm...


:sneaking2:

Fixed it for ya.....

[Tommy Gun]

:wow2:

[The Bone]

The intake hangs over one cylinder bank so it has to be removed for access.
More Ford Genius I bet that adds to the cost of a tune up

[Tommy Gun]

True

[Joe G]

TrueProbably... but now that it's been done for free I won't have to worry about it for years. :yay:

[VaporDude]

Probably... but now that it's been done for free I won't have to worry about it for years. :yay:

Hopefully...........:grin:

[Joe G]

Hopefully...........:grin:True... :banghead:

[Birdman]

Probably... but now that it's been done for free I won't have to worry about it for years. :yay:

You mean the ONE that they replaced that is......:shades:

[Joe G]

You mean the ONE that they replaced that is......:shades:I was talking about the plugs....

[mustang loco]

OK yes , wise NO. I agree with Art ...at least replace the other two that are a pain to get access to. If one went bad maybe others will follow.

+1,agree with both you guys...I'm no mech. but I was told that coils either they work or don't...that's why I came up with replacing the faulty one only...

[Birdman]

10/4 Pat

[Tommy Gun]

Hopefully...........:grin:


You mean the ONE that they replaced that is......:shades:




Stop pickin' on my buddy. :trouble:


.

[Joe G]

Stop pickin' on my buddy. :trouble:


.:goodpost:

[Tommy Gun]

:grin:

[Birdman]

Stop pickin' on my buddy. :trouble:


.

Just keeping it real.....:haha:






























:sofa:

[68fastback]

...I still think it was bad gas :giggle:

:sofa:

[HSURB]

It was all driver related.

















HSURB® :haha:

[Tommy Gun]

...I still think it was bad gas :giggle:

:sofa:


Hi Jon L, welcome to he forum. :wtg:

.

[VaporDude]

...I still think it was bad gas :giggle:

:sofa:

You mean this gas? :fart: or maybe this :fartrocket:

[papashelby]

Poor Joe. Gonna need some :hug:.

[Joe G]

...I still think it was bad gas :giggle:

:sofa:


Hi Jon L, welcome to he forum. :wtg:

.:haha:

[68fastback]

:giggle:

[Tommy Gun]

:innocent: