Header install FAIL

[Boston Mike]

Well, as the title says.....today's kooks install didn't go too well. Was going great until the last lot tightening........which snapped and they can't extract it. Brainstorming over the weekend apparently and a fresh look on Monday.

[onecrazydog]

That really sucks...

[rown4au]

Are you doing this or having a shop do it?

After wrestling with the mid length bassani's on my 98 cobra I now have a much better understanding why header installations are so expensive, it took me several hours just to loosen one side enough to get the transmission out. I shudder to think what it would be like to get them off and another set installed.

[Grabber]

I hear so many horror stories about headers. Either they leak, tick or scrape or blow their gasket or need to be removed to do some work. I would never put them on my car after seeing and hearing all the troubles people have.

[Joe G]

What "snapped"? One of the header bolts?

[Boston Mike]

What "snapped"? One of the header bolts?

Yup. They were using new oem bolts.

[Boston Mike]

I hear so many horror stories about headers. Either they leak, tick or scrape or blow their gasket or need to be removed to do some work. I would never put them on my car after seeing and hearing all the troubles people have.i think those issues are mostly due to using non oem gaskets.

[Joe G]

Yup. They were using new oem bolts.What's their plans to fix it?



Or do we need to get Darkside on the road with his bucket?? :starwars:

[Boston Mike]

What's their plans to fix it?



Or do we need to get Darkside on the road with his bucket?? :starwars:Honestly, that's why I'm glad it's the weekend. Using an extractor didn't work. I'm worried I may be unintentionally getting part of the bottom End rebuilt.

[68fastback]

...bottom end rebuild? :yikes: ...from a broken header bolt?

...almost sounds like it bottomed out (else it should come out ok) thereby jamming the threads before it broke ...which makes me wonder if they really used OEM gaskets. Snapping a bolt in an alloy head is difficult unless it bottomed, I think.

Hope they figure it out for you, Mike. Something doesn't sound right tho.

[Birdman]

...bottom end rebuild? :yikes: ...from a broken header bolt?

...almost sounds like it bottomed out (else it should come out ok) thereby jamming the threads before it broke ...which makes me wonder if they really used OEM gaskets. Snapping a bolt in an alloy head is difficult unless it bottomed, I think.

Hope they figure it out for you, Mike. Something doesn't sound right tho.

I agree it sounds like the bolt used was too long and bottomed out. Sorry to hear that Mikey I'm sure they'll get it fixed though. Did they drop the 'K' member to do the install? That would afford them much greater access to work.

[Tommy Gun]

I hear so many horror stories about headers. Either they leak, tick or scrape or blow their gasket or need to be removed to do some work. I would never put them on my car after seeing and hearing all the troubles people have.


I agree although I did put them on the track turd because it's a car that doesn't matter if it's down to be fixed for a while. I wouldn't put them on the 500.

[Carnut]

Good luck on them getting this out. I've taken my share of these out over the years.

[Boston Mike]

...bottom end rebuild? :yikes: ...from a broken header bolt?

...almost sounds like it bottomed out (else it should come out ok) thereby jamming the threads before it broke ...which makes me wonder if they really used OEM gaskets. Snapping a bolt in an alloy head is difficult unless it bottomed, I think.

Hope they figure it out for you, Mike. Something doesn't sound right tho.

No, they really used oem gaskets and header bolts. The folks I bought the headers from included aftermarket gaskets and stage 8 locking bolts and my shop specifically said "we will use them if you want but we don't recommend anything other than oem" which is what we did. I know this as I have the aftermarket ones in hand. I dont believe they had to drop the k but not positive.

They actually broke their extractor trying to get it out. They are worried that they may have to drop the whole engine and have a machine shop extract and remachine it. :yikes: They don't want that to happen as it'd be on their dime. Trying to make lemonade out of lemons......if that had to happen, wonder if ther are things I should do while it's open and my labor cost is nil (Arp studs, beefier head gasket, rocker as I have small lifter tick).

[Carnut]

They might be able to save it if they use a small punch to tap in a counter clockwise direction. Hopefully they used anti-sieze on it to begin with.

[Boston Mike]

I agree although I did put them on the track turd because it's a car that doesn't matter if it's down to be fixed for a while. I wouldn't put them on the 500.

I have his Lexus until they are done. Not the same but better than a pos rental.

[Darkside]

Its a long weekend for us Federal folks so I can easily squeeze a quick trip to Texas to "negotiate" a proper settlement for you if needed Mike.

[Boston Mike]

Its a long weekend for us Federal folks so I can easily squeeze a quick trip to Texas to "negotiate" a proper settlement for you if needed Mike.
Right now I am filing this under "**** happens". How they resolve it will determine my needs.

[Gr8snkbite]

sorry to hear Mike, but.....whats the bottom end got to do with it....headers bolt to the heads.....remove the affected head and work it....bottom end relates to crank, bearings, etc...

[Tommy Gun]

Right now I am filing this under "**** happens". How they resolve it will determine my needs.

Good attitude. :wtg:

[Boston Mike]

sorry to hear Mike, but.....whats the bottom end got to do with it....headers bolt to the heads.....remove the affected head and work it....bottom end relates to crank, bearings, etc...

Heads seem to me to be on the bottom to me........that's what I'm referring to and why I'm wondering of it makes any sense to up the studs and gasket while they have it out.

[Boston Mike]

sorry to hear Mike, but.....whats the bottom end got to do with it....headers bolt to the heads.....remove the affected head and work it....bottom end relates to crank, bearings, etc...

Ps you have seen my battery terminals. You think I know what anything is called under there? :grin:

[Tommy Gun]

No

[Boston Mike]

Good attitude. :wtg:

Plus, since it's gonna be up in the air for a bit, I'm getting 3.73 swap at cost. Lemonade not lemons.

[Tommy Gun]

:rofl3:


.

[Gr8snkbite]

Heads seem to me to be on the bottom to me........that's what I'm referring to and why I'm wondering of it makes any sense to up the studs and gasket while they have it out.

copy....removing the head would be best...then they can work it better. they dont have to pull the engine...and yes, dropping the k member makes it much easier, especially getting at those bolts centerline...

[Tommy Gun]

Plus, since it's gonna be up in the air for a bit, I'm getting 3.73 swap at cost. Lemonade not lemons.


cool

[Gr8snkbite]

Ps you have seen my battery terminals. You think I know what anything is called under there? :grin:

now you know.....and the shop should know.....:groan:

[mustang loco]

sorry to hear Mike..a lot of good tips from the guys though,wish you all the best and hope it will be easier and fixed on monday...(5.4 heads)

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQNxuyX8O-_OCg_H5dKdoN7xZqIpcyW5RaDhDdbvCTARRrNzMbP9g


http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPPyTySmz_QcA-FGJohI1VCci6TMO0gAzs6Gf0qvq1jTdcZWVe

[ati]

Sorry to hear this Mike but like you said sometimes: "**** happens".
Hope it all works out for you.

[Birdman]

copy....removing the head would be best...then they can work it better. they dont have to pull the engine...and yes, dropping the k member makes it much easier, especially getting at those bolts centerline...

If they can't fix it in place I would just drop the 'K' and remove the entire engine before removing the heads...much less work and much less intrusive.

[68fastback]

I'm still stuck on how a competant shop breaks a correct header bolt by properly tightening it ...that's really difficult to do (...unless using air tools with torque set wrong, etc.)

But, I guess, stuff happens.

Maybe if they drop the engine out, like George said, once they get better access maybe they'll be able to get the broken bolt out. I'd only want the head removed and stripped as a last resort. Hopefully the alloy threads can be chased and are not too badly damaged.

[dwattsup]

Sorry to hear about the broken bolt on the header install. I just had some installed on my car and I was told the same thing about preferring to use the OEM bolts for the install. I took my mechanic the better part of a day to get them installed. They are a pain to get installed.

[Joe G]

Ps you have seen my battery terminals. You think I know what anything is called under there? :grin::goodone:

[Boston Mike]

I'm still stuck on how a competant shop breaks a correct header bolt by properly tightening it ...that's really difficult to do (...unless using air tools with torque set wrong, etc.)

But, I guess, stuff happens.

Maybe if they drop the engine out, like George said, once they get better access maybe they'll be able to get the broken bolt out. I'd only want the head removed and stripped as a last resort. Hopefully the alloy threads can be chased and are not too badly damaged.


5pm on a Friday.......someone's mind may have been already on weekend time.

They are hoping to drop it and not have to remove the head......for them cheapest option.

[Joe G]

I'd rather them drop the entire engine rather than take off the head. Getting the DOHC chains on correctly isn't simple to do.

[Tommy Gun]

I'd rather them drop the entire engine rather than take off the head. Getting the DOHC chains on correctly isn't simple to do.


Exactly!

[onecrazydog]

They dropped my engine when I had to redo the header gaskets... :spend:

[Boston Mike]

They dropped my engine when I had to redo the header gaskets... :spend:

This fix is o. Their dime.

[onecrazydog]

This fix is o. Their dime.

But now you are going to have a disgruntled guy putting your car back together... I would take coffee and donuts there Monday morning!! :rofl3:

[Tommy Gun]

But now you are going to have a disgruntled guy putting your car back together... I would take coffee and donuts there Monday morning!! :rofl3:


:verygoodpost:


.

[Birdman]

But now you are going to have a disgruntled guy putting your car back together... I would take coffee and donuts there Monday morning!! :rofl3:

sorta like the guy that sends his dinner back to the Chef wanting it cooked right.....just sayin..:nonono:

[Boston Mike]

sorta like the guy that sends his dinner back to the Chef wanting it cooked right.....just sayin..:nonono:

Nope. It's a good shop and I trust them to get it solved . As I said before, S H I T happens sometimes.

[Birdman]

Nope. It's a good shop and I trust them to get it solved . As I said before, S H I T happens sometimes.

Good way to look at it Mike. You know it's killing him that it happened and they will want to get it right for you I'm sure especially if you are understanding about it like that.

[Darkside]

Nope. It's a good shop and I trust them to get it solved . As I said before, S H I T happens sometimes.

and if doesn't get fixed, then H2O happens.

[68fastback]

...dihydrogen monoxide is the universal lubricant of truth and justice :haha:

[Joe G]

Is this still happening? :popcorn:

[Joe G]

Oh and...



:needpics:

[Grabber]

Yes

[VaporDude]

If they pull the heads, put in a set of CAMs. :haha:

[Carnut]

This is an easy fix, a little superglue and you're done.

[Birdman]

This is an easy fix, a little superglue and you're done.

What would Uncle Vito do?

[Joe G]

What would Uncle Vito do?Pull out his trust Colt and put a cap in the guy's azz. :bigboss:

[Tommy Gun]

:ohsnap:

[Boston Mike]

No luck. Ugh.

[Tommy Gun]

Which bolt hole is it?

Do you know specifically?

[Tommy Gun]

Perhaps post #53 is in order? :idea:

.

[dwattsup]

I hope they don't have to drop the motor and pull the head off. Even though it's on their dime I wouldn't would want to be dropping my engine just to extract and replace a bolt if I could help it. But I guess you gotta do what you gotta do to get it done right. If I had to drop the motor I would take that opportunity to upgrade the heads like titanium valve guides and cams. Good luck and I hope they get everything squared away without too much agony. I'm sure you will keep us posted on the progess.

[Joe G]

No luck. Ugh.What did they try?

[Boston Mike]

I hope they don't have to drop the motor and pull the head off. Even though it's on their dime I wouldn't would want to be dropping my engine just to extract and replace a bolt if I could help it. But I guess you gotta do what you gotta do to get it done right. If I had to drop the motor I would take that opportunity to upgrade the heads like titanium valve guides and cams. Good luck and I hope they get everything squared away without too much agony. I'm sure you will keep us posted on the progess.

Of course it's only one side.......But yup they have to pull it. They tried everything they. Luke think of.

[Darkside]

Do I need to request some time off to come out and "motivate" some folks??

Nothing quite like a good pre-game pep talk to get people to give their best effort.

[Tommy Gun]

:ohsnap:

[Boston Mike]

What did they try?
Last one I heard involved welding a nut to a washer and then The washer to the broken bolt.

[Gr8snkbite]

:groan:

[68fastback]

What would Uncle Vito do?

What about:

Drill two holes into the face of the broken bolt to match the spacing of a #12 (or other) snake-eye spanner bit, then hit it briefly with a pinpoint torch to thermally shock the stuck threads and, while still warm, squirt it with liquid wrench penetrating oil to contract the threads ever so slightly and get penetrant between the steel and alloy. Then try to loosen it with the snake-eye spanner bit.

If that doesn't work, probably have pull the head and drill it out with a drill press -- then carefully pick out the remains?

[Boston Mike]

What about:

Drill two holes into the face of the broken bolt to match the spacing of a #12 (or other) snake-eye spanner bit, then hit it briefly with a pinpoint torch to thermally shock the stuck threads and, while still warm, squirt it with liquid wrench penetrating oil to contract the threads ever so slightly and get penetrant between the steel and alloy. Then try to loosen it with the snake-eye spanner bit.

If that doesn't work, probably have pull the head and drill it out with a drill press -- then carefully pick out the remains?

They have already moved to the last step. I guess if that doesn't work, someone is buying me a new head.

[68fastback]

They have already moved to the last step. I guess if that doesn't work, someone is buying me a new head.

:wtg: That should get it out ...but, yeah, a new head if any serious thread damage.

An insert might work ok (dunno), but I would not want them to weld/machine/tap since that can affect the head's temper.

[Alloy Dave]

But now you are going to have a disgruntled guy putting your car back together... I would take coffee and donuts there Monday morning!! :rofl3:Don't do that, Joe will show up.


Mike, sorry to hear about this...that would have me losing sleep.

[dwattsup]

Sorry to hear they couldn't get it out without pulling the head off. At least they gave it a try and didn't do anything rash. At this point sounds like they need to bite the bullet and get it taken care of the right way.

I feel for you, twice I was ready to drive my car home and then unexpected problems came up that required my car to stay another week. And then there was 2 times when I drove 115 miles home only to break down a couple of miles from home, usually 11pm or later. When I had my headers installed (about a month ago) about 10 miles from home they started to sound real loud. When I got off the freeway near home I punched it and it sounded like I was running straight headers. At the first light as I came to a stop I heard a pipe scrapping the ground. One of the couplers slide forward and the front of the attached rear pipe dropped down. I had to call my wife to come and get me. I picked up a jack, stands, chalks, and tools then drove back to my car and re-attached the pipe at midnight freezing my butt off working in a pile of broken safety glass.

So as you say, sh*t happens, but you will get it fixed and it will be better then new when you're done! I think most of us that have modified our cars have run into things like this. Hang in there Mike!

[Darkside]

I still like the idea of somebody taking the Nestea plunge over this.........

[Joe G]

I'm betting this shop will NEVER install headers on a GT500 again!

[Darkside]

I'm betting this shop will NEVER install headers on a GT500 again!

or they charge more and do it differently next time.

[Boston Mike]

I hope they don't have to drop the motor and pull the head off. Even though it's on their dime I wouldn't would want to be dropping my engine just to extract and replace a bolt if I could help it. But I guess you gotta do what you gotta do to get it done right. If I had to drop the motor I would take that opportunity to upgrade the heads like titanium valve guides and cams. Good luck and I hope they get everything squared away without too much agony. I'm sure you will keep us posted on the progess.

I didn't think the GT cams did much in the way of HP/$$. But, maybe worth while..............got part numbers?? I had asked about new lifters, as I have had for the longeset time, a tick, that is annoying. He didn't feel it was worth the cost (he figured, at $20 per lifter that it would be running $550+ and that the tick might still be there. Since they have had to pull the head off, I'm gonna ask them to do the APR head studs and beefier head gaskets. These are what he's recommending:

http://www.lethalperformance.com/07-09-shelby-gt500-engine-hardware-and-fasteners-c-2052_2266_9549/arp-07-11-5-4l-gt500-2000-series-cylinder-head-stud-kit-p-35165
http://www.lethalperformance.com/07-09-shelby-gt500-engine-head-gaskets-c-2052_2266_9546


Got BVM working on a rush order as we speak.....................they've sent the head off to a machine shop (glad they are sending it to folks that do it regularly), so car's gonna be on the lift for another couple of days. I've got his Lexus for the duration while he schlumps around in his shop truck, so during the week, not a big deal for me (I drive 8 miles to work, park, drive 8 miles home.......repeat).
Oh, and we have the gears going on too........might as well while it's in the air.

[Boston Mike]

I'm betting this shop will NEVER install headers on a GT500 again!

Particularly for $500. He basically said he'll be upside down double that in terms of cost and lack of use of lift. He's not happy, but he's pragmatic.

[Boston Mike]

I still like the idea of somebody taking the Nestea plunge over this.........

nothing says that can't happen AFTER I have my car back.................they wouldn't expect it then.

[Boston Mike]

Some input from Van:

Mike

Honestly, with just having to do what they are doing you could install Ford GT Cams TDC (Top Dead Center) and you'll pick up some power with a tune but nothing outrageous. The ARP head bolts are nice but frankly, I use OEM head gaskets on these Super Snakes I build and they hold 20+ lbs of boost easily. I'd stick with OEM. There really isn't much more you can do. The FGT cams work just fine with the OEM valve train and springs. Bang for the buck and since their out. I'd say cams. They'll make a difference later on with a TVS too.

Hope all is well. Have not spoken to Greg in a while. Tell him and TG I said "howdy".

Van

[Tommy Gun]

Say hi to Van :hi:



:grin:

[dwattsup]

I didn't think the GT cams did much in the way of HP/$$. But, maybe worth while..............got part numbers?? I had asked about new lifters, as I have had for the longeset time, a tick, that is annoying. He didn't feel it was worth the cost (he figured, at $20 per lifter that it would be running $550+ and that the tick might still be there. Since they have had to pull the head off, I'm gonna ask them to do the APR head studs and beefier head gaskets. These are what he's recommending:

http://www.lethalperformance.com/07-09-shelby-gt500-engine-hardware-and-fasteners-c-2052_2266_9549/arp-07-11-5-4l-gt500-2000-series-cylinder-head-stud-kit-p-35165
http://www.lethalperformance.com/07-09-shelby-gt500-engine-head-gaskets-c-2052_2266_9546


Got BVM working on a rush order as we speak.....................they've sent the head off to a machine shop (glad they are sending it to folks that do it regularly), so car's gonna be on the lift for another couple of days. I've got his Lexus for the duration while he schlumps around in his shop truck, so during the week, not a big deal for me (I drive 8 miles to work, park, drive 8 miles home.......repeat).
Oh, and we have the gears going on too........might as well while it's in the air.

Sorry Mike, I don't have the part #'s on the FGT cams, I leave that up to my mechanic to track down. I hear they are getting harder to source since Ford stopped making them a while back. You're right about not picking up a lot of power versus the price, but you know how upgrades work. Lots of money for small increments of power increase. Sounds like things are moving along in getting it repaired. Hang in there!

[Birdman]

The FGT cams are what is being used in the 2013GT500. Make sure they "degree" the cams to your engine.....it will make all the difference in the world when it comes to getting the most power out of them. That said degree-ing them in this engine takes someone who really knows what they are doing.:shades:

[Gr8snkbite]

:goodpost: G

They might as well deck the heads while their off....

[68fastback]

Some input from Van:

Mike

Honestly, with just having to do what they are doing you could install Ford GT Cams TDC (Top Dead Center) and you'll pick up some power with a tune but nothing outrageous. The ARP head bolts are nice but frankly, I use OEM head gaskets on these Super Snakes I build and they hold 20+ lbs of boost easily. I'd stick with OEM. There really isn't much more you can do. The FGT cams work just fine with the OEM valve train and springs. Bang for the buck and since their out. I'd say cams. They'll make a difference later on with a TVS too.

Hope all is well. Have not spoken to Greg in a while. Tell him and TG I said "howdy".

Van

Actually, Van's spot-on, imo.

[Boston Mike]

:goodpost: G

They might as well deck the heads while their off....I know how to deck the halls. Is that the same?

[Tommy Gun]

I know how to deck the halls. Is that the same?


If you can't stay on topic in this tech thread, I'll have to take further action. :sherriff:





:rofl3:

.

[Boston Mike]

If you can't stay on topic in this tech thread, I'll have to take further action. :sherriff:





:rofl3:

.

That was my way of saying I have no idea what decking the heads is.

[Tommy Gun]

That was my way of saying I have no idea what decking the heads is.


Okay, we'll allow that, carry on.



.

[Boston Mike]

Okay, we'll allow that, carry on.



.Maybe you could share with the rest of the class?

[Cheftjpeck]

Isn't decking heads where you shave off material or something like that so it sits flush with the block thus increasing compression?

[Tommy Gun]

Maybe you could share with the rest of the class?


My opinions on these subjects don't count.



Mr. Happiness


.

[Boston Mike]

My opinions on these subjects don't count.



Mr. Happiness


.

So you do pay attention. I was talking to MC by the way.

[Alloy Dave]

Yes, to deck the heads means to shave them slightly...often done on older engines to ensure they are true and flat.The compression increase would be very slight, and on a V engine you must be cautious not to mess up the sealing angles with the intercooler/intake, etc. I guess I'm not sure what you'd get from doing it in your case, maybe others know more than I do and can chime in.

[Cheftjpeck]

Yes, to deck the heads means to shave them slightly...often done on older engines to ensure they are true and flat.The compression increase would be very slight, and on a V engine you must be cautious not to mess up the sealing angles with the intercooler/intake, etc. I guess I'm not sure what you'd get from doing it in your case, maybe others know more than I do and can chime in.
Cool... I remember my dad had to that on an old camaro I had with the tunnel ram...

[Boston Mike]

:nonono:


http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/Boston_M/abf007d2.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/Boston_M/26c338e6.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/Boston_M/49bd5d71.jpg

[Darkside]

When do you need me there??

[Boston Mike]

When do you need me there??


We close on Tuesday at 9:30, so anytime after 10:30 will work. I should be done with him by then.

[68fastback]

:yikes: ...SC/IC and stuff sitting on a dirty concrete floor and more just stuck in cardboard boxes! :nonono: ...at least they covered the engine in old towels :doh2:

All will probably work out fine, but they would not win the "cleanliness is next to Godliness" award :rofl3:

And I hope they know from proper head torquing procedures and values.

...a bucket-quiz might be in order? :haha:

[Boston Mike]

:yikes: ...SC/IC and stuff sitting on a dirty concrete floor and more just stuck in cardboard boxes! :nonono: ...at least they covered the engine in old towels :doh2:

All will probably work out fine, but they would not win the "cleanliness is next to Godliness" award :rofl3:

And I hope they know from proper head torquing procedures and values.

...a bucket-quiz might be in order? :haha:

Yeah, clearly you can tell that they weren't prepared to do this. If I could get my hands on a cheap TVS, now would be the time I guess. :idea:

They did say that I'll have the cleanest 30k miles engine when it's all done. Nice to see there's not a ton of carbon buildup on there. I wish I could do the lifters to get rid of the tick I have, but at $20 per, it'd add up fast. Might be time for a one piece driveshaft too. I already have them doing my gears and painting the pumpkin while they're doing it.

[Darkside]

I think I will bring some associates and make this a unit level training event.

[68fastback]

...the hydraulic lash adjusters can be bleed-down rate-tested but possibly it's better to just leave them alone if the tic is mild since you'd be depending on them to do it right and get them all back in the same holes -lol. Didn't Ford mention that slight tics are normal on these engines (dunno) tho should not have one once warmed with the right oil and filter, imo.

Might want to ask them to pre-pressurize the oil when she's all together -- crank the engine with pumps disconnected to pre-pressurize just before they fire it up. Good thing about these engines is the valvetrain is all-roller so tiny amounts of contaminent (while not desireable) is less problematic than a motor where the parts rub ...still, pre-pressuring will eliminate the oil starvation time on first start-up. They better change that oil and filter with the right stuff too -- what are they saving that oil and filter in the tub for? :doh2:

Hope you don't need Darkside on retainer, Mike :nonono:

[Darkside]

Hope you don't need Darkside on retainer, Mike :nonono:

Dan - Quit messing with my Texas vacation plans. If I can do some work while I am there, I may be able to make it tax deductible

[Boston Mike]

...the hydraulic lash adjusters can be bleed-down rate-tested but possibly it's better to just leave them alone if the tic is mild since you'd be depending on them to do it right and get them all back in the same holes -lol. Didn't Ford mention that slight tics are normal on these engines (dunno) tho should not have one once warmed with the right oil and filter, imo.

Might want to ask them to pre-pressurize the oil when she's all together -- crank the engine with pumps disconnected to pre-pressurize just before they fire it up. Good thing about these engines is the valvetrain is all-roller so tiny amounts of contaminent (while not desireable) is less problematic than a motor where the parts rub ...still, pre-pressuring will eliminate the oil starvation time on first start-up. They better change that oil and filter with the right stuff too -- what are they saving that oil and filter in the tub for? :doh2:

Hope you don't need Darkside on retainer, Mike :nonono:

I'm sure it's just there to catch drips. Funny thing, we had a plan to do an oil change.............I guess that's free now. He did ask me Motorcraft or Royal Purple...........I typically have stuck with Motorcraft.........any reason to change now?

[68fastback]

MC is engineered specifically for the motors/valvetrains so seems a good choice to me.

Not wanting to open the Royal Purple and Amsoil bag of snakes -lol- both top quality oils that don't meet the Ford spec.

[68fastback]

Dan - Quit messing with my Texas vacation plans. If I can do some work while I am there, I may be able to make it tax deductible

Exactly! :biggrin:

A local artisan bakery up here (BreadAlone) has only two locations in the US: Shokan NY and Celebration, FL (a Disney planned community) ...same reason :banana: (good bread too!)

[Joe G]

:surprised:



:nonono:




:sad2:




Tell him the engine and k-member should be totally detailed to new before putting it back in.

[Gr8snkbite]

I wouldn't care what they weren't ready for....treating my stuff like that they would get blasted in a heart beat.....:redflag:

[68fastback]

...hydration vacation! :banana:

:grin:

[Birdman]

:surprised:



:nonono:




:sad2:




Tell him the engine and k-member should be totally detailed to new before putting it back in. including the battery terminals.....:innocent:

[Boston Mike]

including the battery terminals.....:innocent:

Ready done. They are replacing the cable that runs to the battery so not only will I have a nice new battery but also the connectors.

[mustang loco]

I wouldn't care what they weren't ready for....treating my stuff like that they would get blasted in a heart beat.....:redflag:

Have to agree with MC on this one...hope/wish you all the best with decisisons and final results Mike!!

[Joker]

This whole ordeal sucks. Hope it turns out really good for you.

[Joe G]

Any updates?

:waiting3:

[Birdman]

I wouldn't care what they weren't ready for....treating my stuff like that they would get blasted in a heart beat.....:redflag:


Have to agree with MC on this one...hope/wish you all the best with decisisons and final results Mike!!


:iagree: the least they could do is protect the engine while it's sitting there like that...http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z234/svtbird91/emoticons/condom.gif

















:haha:

[Tommy Gun]

:wow2:

[ati]

:iagree: the least they could do is protect the engine while it's sitting there like that...http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z234/svtbird91/emoticons/condom.gif

:iagree: Seeing my car tore apart and laying in a pile unprotected would piss me off.

[Boston Mike]

:iagree: Seeing my car tore apart and laying in a pile unprotected would piss me off.

I'm trying to focus on my new house........it's been a nice distraction. It's getting harder to keep Beth thinking iwas just getting an exhaust leak fixed though.........:nonono:

[Birdman]

I'm trying to focus on my new house........it's been a nice distraction. It's getting harder to keep Beth thinking iwas just getting an exhaust leak fixed though.........:nonono:

:ohsnap: I hope your not :busted:....

[ati]

I'm trying to focus on my new house........it's been a nice distraction. It's getting harder to keep Beth thinking iwas just getting an exhaust leak fixed though.........:nonono:


:ohthedrama::rollingpin:

[HSURB]

:nonono:


http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/Boston_M/abf007d2.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/Boston_M/26c338e6.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/Boston_M/49bd5d71.jpg

I just saw this an Oh Sh!t I feel bad seeing your car apart like that. Sorry Mike.

HSURB®

[Boston Mike]

:ohthedrama::rollingpin:I'm okay for now. Now, when I do get it back and start it up, I hope she doesn't notice.

[Cheftjpeck]

With headers??? That will be a tough one to hide ... But u did already have highflow x.. So you can just say that the exhaust leak was caused by blockage in a pipe and once the found the packing material they removed it so the exhaust flows more freely thus the difference in sound...

[Boston Mike]

With headers??? That will be a tough one to hide ... But u did already have highflow x.. So you can just say that the exhaust leak was caused by blockage in a pipe and once the found the packing material they removed it so the exhaust flows more freely thus the difference in sound...

That's the plan

[Joe G]

That's the planOr it's time to install that Dynamat ASAP before she finds out... :look:

[dwattsup]

That's the plan

Until you hit WOT!

[Boston Mike]

Until you hit WOT!

She doesnt get in it all that often.

[dwattsup]

She doesnt get in it all that often.

I hear you on that one, my wife rarely gets in my car. The house is looking good by the way.

[Boston Mike]

I hear you on that one, my wife rarely gets in my car. The house is looking good by the way.

Thanks! Just happy to be coming to completion.....

[Cheftjpeck]

Thanks! Just happy to be coming to completion.....
Yeah very envious Mikey!! House is looking pretty sweet 4 sure

[Carnut]

Just say you're new tune makes it sound louder.

Either that or just tell her it is none of her concern what you do to the car.

Scratch that last one.

[Boston Mike]

D
Just say you're new tune makes it sound louder.

Either that or just tell her it is none of her concern what you do to the car.

Scratch that last one.

:monkey: may. It clean his battery terminals, but he ain't dumb.

[blackshelby]

Yes, to deck the heads means to shave them slightly...often done on older engines to ensure they are true and flat.The compression increase would be very slight, and on a V engine you must be cautious not to mess up the sealing angles with the intercooler/intake, etc. I guess I'm not sure what you'd get from doing it in your case, maybe others know more than I do and can chime in.

Cam timing will change on these motors when you mill/deck the heads

[Joe G]

What's the timeline for everything now that the engine is apart?

What are you adding "as long as the engine is apart" to the list of mods?

[Boston Mike]

What's the timeline for everything now that the engine is apart?

What are you adding "as long as the engine is apart" to the list of mods?

Waiting on the machine shop to bring the head back. They had said Friday or Monday, so Monday it is. Went with the ARP 2000 studs and Conica gaskets. Had them replace the battery cable while it was easy to access (no more damaged and corroded connector). And since she's taking up space on the lift, had them swap gears out. This is on top of headers and wideband install. I wonder how much they are out without a lift for a full week (one of two lifts)?

[BAD SNAKE]

I've been following this thread since the beginning. How did the 'stainless' bolt break in an aluminum head?

[Darkside]

I wonder how much they are out without a lift for a full week (one of two lifts)?

I classify that a personal problem for the shop and shouldn't be a concern for you.

[Gr8snkbite]

I've been following this thread since the beginning. How did the 'stainless' bolt break in an aluminum head?

:goodpost:



we're all waiting for that answer....:waiting:

[Tommy Gun]

I've been following this thread since the beginning. How did the 'stainless' bolt break in an aluminum head?


I hope you're not asking Monkey, he doesn't know the difference between stainless and aluminum. :giggle:

[68fastback]

Waiting on the machine shop to bring the head back. They had said Friday or Monday, so Monday it is. Went with the ARP 2000 studs and Conica gaskets. Had them replace the battery cable while it was easy to access (no more damaged and corroded connector). And since she's taking up space on the lift, had them swap gears out. This is on top of headers and wideband install. I wonder how much they are out without a lift for a full week (one of two lifts)?

They pulled both heads then, I guess? New gaskets and studs both sides? Are you doing the cams, Mike?

[Boston Mike]

They pulled both heads then, I guess? New gaskets and studs both sides? Are you doing the cams, Mike?

I opted against the cams.......cost and availability both played a part. Yes, both sides.

[68fastback]

I can understand that, Mike...

...just wondering why you opted to not just reinstall the one head ...with stock gaskets and studs. Was there something installed that necessitated the other head being pulled?

[Boston Mike]

I can understand that, Mike...

...just wondering why you opted to not just reinstall the one head ...with stock gaskets and studs. Was there something installed that necessitated the other head being pulled?

40 pieces or 41. Did t really matter anymore. I hope to Jim Bob that I won't ever have to pull it out again

[Tommy Gun]

..... I hope to Jim Bob that I won't ever have to pull it out again



:wow2:



:ban:


.

[Boston Mike]

:wow2:



:ban:


.

What? I didn't want the thread to get all religious.

[Boston Mike]

...the hydraulic lash adjusters can be bleed-down rate-tested but possibly it's better to just leave them alone if the tic is mild since you'd be depending on them to do it right and get them all back in the same holes -lol. Didn't Ford mention that slight tics are normal on these engines (dunno) tho should not have one once warmed with the right oil and filter, imo.

Might want to ask them to pre-pressurize the oil when she's all together -- crank the engine with pumps disconnected to pre-pressurize just before they fire it up. Good thing about these engines is the valvetrain is all-roller so tiny amounts of contaminent (while not desireable) is less problematic than a motor where the parts rub ...still, pre-pressuring will eliminate the oil starvation time on first start-up. They better change that oil and filter with the right stuff too -- what are they saving that oil and filter in the tub for? :doh2:

Hope you don't need Darkside on retainer, Mike :nonono:

So, my head is due back first thing tomorrow am (they are picking it up on their way to the shop...................probably wrapped in dirty newspapers).

Dan, you will be happy to know, that they will be cranking with pumps off to get the oil pressure up (he actually said one reason to do that was that if not, it would be possible for the chain to slip throwing the timing off...............again, way over my head). So, rebuild should be under way tomorrow with Wednesday for testing everything.

I can't wait to be done with this.

[Joe G]

I can't wait to be done with this.I bet!

[Boston Mike]

I bet!


Bet heavy.........................

Better get cracking.............500 away from a post count reset.

[Joe G]

Better get cracking.............500 away from a post count reset.:but:

[Tommy Gun]

Bet heavy.........................

Better get cracking.............500 away from a post count reset.



Yeah, that sucks. :banghead:

.

[68fastback]

So, my head is due back first thing tomorrow am (they are picking it up on their way to the shop...................probably wrapped in dirty newspapers).

Dan, you will be happy to know, that they will be cranking with pumps off to get the oil pressure up (he actually said one reason to do that was that if not, it would be possible for the chain to slip throwing the timing off...............again, way over my head). So, rebuild should be under way tomorrow with Wednesday for testing everything.

I can't wait to be done with this.

Hope it all goes well, Mike! A load off your mind for sure...

[mustang loco]

I can't wait to be done with this.

I bet Mike,hope everything goes good!

[ati]

Hope all goes well Mike, I'll bet your excited about getting her home and into that nice new garage.

[Joe G]

:waiting3:

[Darkside]

I haven't received a call/message to fly to DFW to administer a motivational hydrotherapy session, so either the Monkey is too busy to post up that he picked up the car or he is so pissed that it isn't done yet that he can't speak or type.

[Tommy Gun]

:nonono:

[Boston Mike]

Just got her back yesterday afternoon (was ready on Tuesday but logistically couldn't get there to pickup. She looks good and feels different. Gears make a nice difference. But it was raining here yesterday so didn't get a chance to play. That plus having the truck, could only drive one home from the office.

[68fastback]

:wtg: hope all is good with her, Mike ...glad you have her back!!

[Joe G]

:pics: of the clean engine??

:waiting:

[Boston Mike]

:wtg: hope all is good with her, Mike ...glad you have her back!!

Certainly, she feels different. The 3.73 gears definitely feel livlier. I had had a small squeak coming from the back that had been gnawing at me..............while they took off the Watts link to do the gear swap, there was a "rubber washer" that was missing. They replaced that and now my squeak is gone. We are having a tsunami down here today, so likely won't be able to get any performance feedback on it, but have a Autometer cobalt wideband installed now too.

Oh, and they did a nice job detailing her.............which will be pointless after today. :nonono:

[68fastback]

Certainly, she feels different. The 3.73 gears definitely feel livlier. I had had a small squeak coming from the back that had been gnawing at me..............while they took off the Watts link to do the gear swap, there was a "rubber washer" that was missing. They replaced that and now my squeak is gone. We are having a tsunami down here today, so likely won't be able to get any performance feedback on it, but have a Autometer cobalt wideband installed now too.

Oh, and they did a nice job detailing her.............which will be pointless after today. :nonono:

:wtg:

[Boston Mike]

:wtg:

Now I just have to understand how to read it................at idle, it was running aroudn 14.4 (I thought ideal was in the 11-12 range...........but perhaps that's only under throttle)..................again, had about 5 minutes seat time in it.

Also interesting was that the emergency brake handle now comes up much higher than it used to (guessing maybe they had to disconnect to remove the Watts?). Not a big deal to me. Also found during the header install was that my previous shop had bastardized my catback, so they had to weld in a small section (4") to connect the Kooks xpipe to the back................and no, no pics yet..............tsunami.

[Joe G]

At idle your A/F will be much higher - 11-12 ratio is under WOT.

[68fastback]

Now I just have to understand how to read it................at idle, it was running aroudn 14.4 (I thought ideal was in the 11-12 range...........but perhaps that's only under throttle)..................again, had about 5 minutes seat time in it.

Also interesting was that the emergency brake handle now comes up much higher than it used to (guessing maybe they had to disconnect to remove the Watts?). Not a big deal to me. Also found during the header install was that my previous shop had bastardized my catback, so they had to weld in a small section (4") to connect the Kooks xpipe to the back................and no, no pics yet..............tsunami.

At idle that's perfect. Stochiometry* for pump gas is roughly 14.4. Under load it has to be richer to prevent detonation (and related wall-art ;-)), so under high loading tunes will try to keep it a safe +/- 11-12.x range depending on engine, use, etc.

*Stochiometry is the balance of ingredients in a chemical reaction that enables a complete reaction with no waste ...for combusting pump gas that roughtly 14.4 parts air for one part pump gas.

[68fastback]

I see Joe types faster than I do :grin:

[Joe G]

I see Joe types faster than I do :grin::chat:

[Joe G]

I see Joe is as smart as me :grin::wow2:



:grin:

[Boston Mike]

At idle that's perfect. Stochiometry* for pump gas is roughly 14.4. Under load it has to be richer to prevent detonation (and related wall-art ;-)), so under high loading tunes will try to keep it a safe +/- 11-12.x range depending on engine, use, etc.

*Stochiometry is the balance of ingredients in a chemical reaction that enables a complete reaction with no waste ...for combusting pump gas that roughtly 14.4 parts air for one part pump gas.

As I said, I thought it was WOT that the 11-12 was spot on. I just wasn't sure where it was supposed to be at idle. He had said in testing it out, it was at 11.4 across the board...............kudos to Dennis. Only item he noted was a bit of an idle surge, but he said he checked for obvious vacuum leaks that could cause that. Maybe a bit of a relearning of the TB is in order.

[68fastback]

As I said, I thought it was WOT that the 11-12 was spot on. I just wasn't sure where it was supposed to be at idle. He had said in testing it out, it was at 11.4 across the board...............kudos to Dennis. Only item he noted was a bit of an idle surge, but he said he checked for obvious vacuum leaks that could cause that. Maybe a bit of a relearning of the TB is in order.

That could be since the battery was disconnected for an extended period.

[Joe G]

That could be since the battery was disconnected for an extended period.:yes:


Shouldn't he do this?? ---> http://stangsunited.com/showthread.php?1640-Resetting-KAM-quot-Keep-Alive-Memory-quot-when-doing-mods-to-your-Ford

[68fastback]

:wow2:



:grin:

:wtg: ;-)

[Boston Mike]

:yes:


Shouldn't he do this?? ---> http://stangsunited.com/showthread.php?1640-Resetting-KAM-quot-Keep-Alive-Memory-quot-when-doing-mods-to-your-Ford


I think that's why I need to drive a bit to get it back.................they didn't put 50 miles on it test driving I'm sure

[rown4au]

As I said, I thought it was WOT that the 11-12 was spot on. I just wasn't sure where it was supposed to be at idle. He had said in testing it out, it was at 11.4 across the board...............kudos to Dennis. Only item he noted was a bit of an idle surge, but he said he checked for obvious vacuum leaks that could cause that. Maybe a bit of a relearning of the TB is in order.

Sounds like a trip to Cresson may be in order...a few laps around the track are sure to sort it out. Even if they can't be at full speed.:boink:

[Boston Mike]

Sounds like a trip to Cresson may be in order...a few laps around the track are sure to sort it out. Even if they can't be at full speed.:boink:Just
Might have to do that.

[Alloy Dave]

Good to hear it's back and running Mike. Hope that rain passes soon.

[onecrazydog]

Just got her back yesterday afternoon (was ready on Tuesday but logistically couldn't get there to pickup. She looks good and feels different. Gears make a nice difference. But it was raining here yesterday so didn't get a chance to play. That plus having the truck, could only drive one home from the office.

The gears will make a big difference... Let's see the pics of it in it's new home...

[King Cobra]

Glad to see you have this sorted out. You will like the new gear.

[Highwayman]

I see Joe types faster than I do :grin:

It could have something to do with Joe typing a lot less than you did http://stangsunited.com/images/smilies/Smilies2/SU%20favorites/tiptoe2.gif

[Boston Mike]

It could have something to do with Joe typing a lot less than you did http://stangsunited.com/images/smilies/Smilies2/SU%20favorites/tiptoe2.gif

:goodpost:

[68fastback]

It could have something to do with Joe typing a lot less than you did :tiptoe2:

:lol: ...but you get what you pay for :haha:

[Joe G]

You get paid for those long posts?!?!? :wow2:


You much be rich like TG!! :moneyman:






(:hide:)

[Tommy Gun]

:nonono:

[68fastback]

You get paid for those long posts?!?!? :wow2:


You much be rich like TG!! :moneyman:






(:hide:)

C'mon -- I'll never be *that* rich! :spend: :moneyman: :spend:


:rofl2:

[Dad's72Mach]

I'm confused as to why you had all this done at the shop. Why didn't you just wait till ShelbyFest and have a bunch of hungover dufi attempt to rebuild your engine on the street while I drunkenly give obnoxious commentary and record the whole thing on camera?



:pimp:

[Joe G]

I'm confused as to why you had all this done at the shop. Why didn't you just wait till ShelbyFest and have a bunch of hungover dufi attempt to rebuild your engine on the street while I drunkenly give obnoxious commentary and record the whole thing on camera?



:pimp::logical:

[Boston Mike]

:logical:

Keith's a quitter, remember?

[Dad's72Mach]

Keith's a quitter, remember?

Yeah, he did come up short didn't he?


:pimp:

[Tommy Gun]

:wow2:

[Gr8snkbite]

:hey2:

[Gr8snkbite]

Keith's a quitter, remember?


Yeah, he did come up short didn't he?


:pimp:

MC...take note.....two SF shirts get delivered in teeny tiny pieces......:innocent:

[mustang loco]

Glad to see you have this sorted out. You will like the new gear.

+1.nice to see the car's back Mike!!

[dwattsup]

Glad to hear all the pieces went back together right and the car is running again. Should be better than before the bolt broke!

[Tommy Gun]

MC...take note.....two SF shirts get delivered in teeny tiny pieces......:innocent:



Just get them both a "small" size. :rofl3:

[Gr8snkbite]

:idea:

[Tommy Gun]

:tiphat2:

.

[HSURB]

I'm confused as to why you had all this done at the shop. Why didn't you just wait till ShelbyFest and have a bunch of hungover dufi attempt to rebuild your engine on the street while I drunkenly give obnoxious commentary and record the whole thing on camera?



:pimp:

Exactly.

HSURB®

[Shlbylvr]

I'm confused as to why you had all this done at the shop. Why didn't you just wait till ShelbyFest and have a bunch of hungover dufi attempt to rebuild your engine on the street while I drunkenly give obnoxious commentary and record the whole thing on camera?



:pimp:


Yeah, he did come up short didn't he?


:pimp:

:goodpost: X 2