Code P0351

[Tommy Gun]

Anyone know what this means specifically?


P0351

Ignition Coil
(cop-a)
Primary/Secondary ck t




:look:

[Joe G]

Sounds like you have an open or short circuit to one of your coils. Probably from that painted on tape stuff. :shades:


http://www.obd-codes.com/p0351

[Tommy Gun]

Do you know if (cop-a) may mean coil-on-plug "A" meaning number one, front pass side coil? :waiting2:

[Joe G]

Do you know if (cop-a) may mean coil-on-plug "A" meaning number one, front pass side coil? :waiting2:I've been looking, but can't find out what that means. :reading:

[Tommy Gun]

Me either.

I cleared the code.

Rechecked the elec connections at the pass side coils.

So far car runs better and no code thrown.

I need to drive it around a bit and see if it reoccurs.

Hopefully just a loose coil wire.

It did this just before my meltdown at the track, so I don't believe it's in the wiring and my wiring deal was on the drivers side, not pass.

[Tommy Gun]

:waiting2:

[Boston Mike]

:waiting2:

Did you check the battery connections?

[Tommy Gun]

Did you check the battery connections?


:oops: good point.

[Tommy Gun]

:waiting2:

[Joe G]

What are we waiting for? :popcorn:

[Tommy Gun]

Answers if the cop-a is pass side position one.

[Joe G]

Answers if the cop-a is pass side position one.Dunno.

[Tommy Gun]

Anyone know what this means specifically?


P0351

Ignition Coil
(cop-a)
Primary/Secondary ck t




:look:



:waiting2:



:look:

[The Bone]

Why dont you ask Suri

[Tommy Gun]

:nonono:

[Stew]

You can check the resistance across the primary and secondary of your COPs. I do not know the exact resistance values for the GT500 COP, but I had to do this on my Expedition when it tripped a similar code. Still do not know what "a" means. Just my 2 cents.

[Tommy Gun]

This is on the SN95 2002 Mustang.

I don't know what you mean by across the primary secondary? :doh:

[Stew]

This is on the SN95 2002 Mustang.

I don't know what you mean by across the primary secondary? :doh:

Primary resistance is across the top two connectors of the coil. Secondary resistance is from one of the top two connectors to the spring inside the coil that attaches to the spark plug. If I was home I would send you a photo, but unfortunately there are not many 4.6L coils out here on USS ENTERPRISE. I guess I could beam Scotty down to get some. :haha:

[Tommy Gun]

Primary resistance is across the top two connectors of the coil. Secondary resistance is from one of the top two connectors to the spring inside the coil that attaches to the spark plug. If I was home I would send you a photo, but unfortunately there are not many 4.6L coils out here on USS ENTERPRISE. I guess I could beam Scotty down to get some. :haha:



5.4L will do then. :waiting2:

.

[Stew]

5.4L will do then. :waiting2:

.

:doh2:

[Tommy Gun]

I guess w interest now on the new model Mustangs, no one cares to answer problems w older Mustangs.

Maybe I'll find a SN95 forum to hang out on. :nonono:

[Stew]

Do you have a service manual for the car? If not go to AutoZone or Advance auto parts and page through the Chilton manuals on the shelf.

[Birdman]

I thought you had some very good answers myself......:popcorn:

[Tommy Gun]

Do you have a service manual for the car? If not go to AutoZone or Advance auto parts and page through the Chilton manuals on the shelf.

Those type books don't have technically specific stuff like meanings of some code details such as "cop-a"

Maybe it's a mystery well never know. :look:

[Stew]

Those type books don't have technically specific stuff like meanings of some code details such as "cop-a"

Maybe it's a mystery well never know. :look:

Have you tried a different code scanner, maybe one that provides more information. Not sure what type you used, but maybe a possibility. Just a thought.

[Tommy Gun]

I've been thinking of getting a better scanner, one that does different cars as well.

I'm using my SCT device to pull these codes right now.

[Stew]

I've been thinking of getting a better scanner, one that does different cars as well.

I'm using my SCT device to pull these codes right now.

Take it to AutoZone or somewhere that does the code scan for free. Then buy yourself a better code scanner. I doubt the SCT tuner provides the level of detail of an automotive code scanner.

[onecrazydog]

I guess w interest now on the new model Mustangs, no one cares to answer problems w older Mustangs.

Maybe I'll find a SN95 forum to hang out on. :nonono:

I would like to help but I have never owned an SN95 mustang... I beat every one I raced with the Vette though...

[Tommy Gun]

I would like to help but I have never owned an SN95 mustang... I beat every one I raced with the Vette though...


Yeah most Mustangs then were pretty crappy, that's why the '03-'04 Cobra's became such a big hit.

I was just messin anyhow, I know we may only have one or two people on this forum that "might" know the answer to that technical a question and they're usually not here much.

[rown4au]

If I can ever get my new scanner figured out and the software loaded on my PC I will see what I can find, I may need your VIN though so PM it to me and will see what the online database says.

[Tommy Gun]

What type scanner did you get?

I'm thinking of getting one also. Maybe even one that does multiple type cars and can be updated.

[Stew]

What type scanner did you get?

I'm thinking of getting one also. Maybe even one that does multiple type cars and can be updated.

ACTRON CP 9580 from Amazon.com $152.

[Tommy Gun]

I've been looking at this one because it covers many many cars even back to 1982. :faint:

I does cost almost $300 though.

It has free updates too.

I have neighbors ask me things sometimes, and this could be a good help tool.

It is quite a bit for a single tool though, so I'm looking at other options that cover a variety of cars.

http://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDisplay.cfm?lookup=AXR6000&source=froogle&kw=AXR6000

[rown4au]

What type scanner did you get?

I'm thinking of getting one also. Maybe even one that does multiple type cars and can be updated.

I got the Innova 3160b. I read a lot of reviews and this seemed to do pretty well and the online reviews sounded good but I haven't really used them yet as the track car has not thrown its phantom check engine light yet.

http://www.amazon.com/3160B-Professional-CanOBDII-Diagnostic-Enhanced/dp/B001QIUGVI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337565920&sr=8-1

Still reading up on how to use it, as never had one before so I have a lot to learn.

[Tommy Gun]

I got the Innova 3160b. I read a lot of reviews and this seemed to do pretty well and the online reviews sounded good but I haven't really used them yet as the track car has not thrown its phantom check engine light yet.

http://www.amazon.com/3160B-Professional-CanOBDII-Diagnostic-Enhanced/dp/B001QIUGVI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337565920&sr=8-1

Still reading up on how to use it, as never had one before so I have a lot to learn.


Unplug some stuff, start the car, throw some codes, and see how it works. :grin:

.

[Tommy Gun]

That one does seem like it covers quite a bit, although it doesn't go back to older cars....but who's to say I would ever need that.

[bigb427]

The exact definition of a code P0351 is an open or short in the primary circuit of number one cylinder (pass. side, front most cylinder). The most common reason for this code is a coil being unplugged or the wiring connector not fully latched on the coil. After that I'd suspect a bad coil itself. A short or open in the wiring between the coil and the computer or a problem within the computer itself can also cause this code. A code P0352 would be the same problem with cylinder #2 and so forth. Hope this helps!

[Birdman]

The exact definition of a code P0351 is an open or short in the primary circuit of number one cylinder (pass. side, front most cylinder). The most common reason for this code is a coil being unplugged or the wiring connector not fully latched on the coil. After that I'd suspect a bad coil itself. A short or open in the wiring between the coil and the computer or a problem within the computer itself can also cause this code. A code P0352 would be the same problem with cylinder #2 and so forth. Hope this helps!

This might be a good time for TG to post the pic's of his burned and melted wiring harness...which is what JoeG originally pointed to ....just sayin...:shades:

[Boston Mike]

This might be a good time for TG to post the pic's of his burned and melted wiring harness...which is what JoeG originally pointed to ....just sayin...:shades:

you think?

[Birdman]

you think? just a rough idea

[Joe G]

9563

[Tommy Gun]

This might be a good time for TG to post the pic's of his burned and melted wiring harness...which is what JoeG originally pointed to ....just sayin...:shades:

This was on the opposite side of the engine.

[Tommy Gun]

The exact definition of a code P0351 is an open or short in the primary circuit of number one cylinder (pass. side, front most cylinder). The most common reason for this code is a coil being unplugged or the wiring connector not fully latched on the coil. After that I'd suspect a bad coil itself. A short or open in the wiring between the coil and the computer or a problem within the computer itself can also cause this code. A code P0352 would be the same problem with cylinder #2 and so forth. Hope this helps!


Thank you for this info...but.... I had found that the number 3 ? (pass side, 3rd from front) coil plug was not locked on, pretty loose. I did check all of them at the same time to make sure they were tight. Wouldn't that have shown according to you to be a P0353 ?

Maybe 1 and 3 were loose, but the only code was a P0351....and a code I always have, a P1000 I think? (always says system not ready or something) I've always had that code even when I bought it and just clear it every now and then.

Car is running fine now and no code thrown on it's test runs.

[bigb427]

I have seen where loose injector or coil connectors caused nothing more than an intermittent misfire without even causing the check engine lamp to come on or setting a code, so the fact that you found #3 coil connector loose without a code doesn't surprise me, although it is a little weird.
The code P1000 isn't really a fault code. It's a little hard to explain. Within your cars computer there are a set of programs designed to test components such as the oxygen sensors as you drive it. These programs are called "monitors". When you see a code P1000 it simply means the vehicle has not been driven enough to complete these "monitors". The only way to clear this code is to drive the car in a set manner that will cause these monitors to complete. Disconnecting the battery or trying to use a scan tool to clear P1000 will not work.
If you have emissions testing in your area (I assume you don't), the car will fail the emissions test if it has a P1000. As newer cars have an adaptive strategy programmed into their computers where normal wear and driving habits are learned, it's not really a good idea for optimum performance to keep clearing codes as you state you have done in the past. This however only applies if you are trying to clear the P1000 by disconnecting the battery. If you selected "clear codes" from a scan tool the computer memory should be still intact, unless you have a scan tool that can "clear keep alive memory" as factory Ford diagnostic equipment can do.
Hope this helps!

[Tommy Gun]

I have seen where loose injector or coil connectors caused nothing more than an intermittent misfire without even causing the check engine lamp to come on or setting a code, so the fact that you found #3 coil connector loose without a code doesn't surprise me, although it is a little weird.
The code P1000 isn't really a fault code. It's a little hard to explain. Within your cars computer there are a set of programs designed to test components such as the oxygen sensors as you drive it. These programs are called "monitors". When you see a code P1000 it simply means the vehicle has not been driven enough to complete these "monitors". The only way to clear this code is to drive the car in a set manner that will cause these monitors to complete. Disconnecting the battery or trying to use a scan tool to clear P1000 will not work.
If you have emissions testing in your area (I assume you don't), the car will fail the emissions test if it has a P1000. As newer cars have an adaptive strategy programmed into their computers where normal wear and driving habits are learned, it's not really a good idea for optimum performance to keep clearing codes as you state you have done in the past. This however only applies if you are trying to clear the P1000 by disconnecting the battery. If you selected "clear codes" from a scan tool the computer memory should be still intact, unless you have a scan tool that can "clear keep alive memory" as factory Ford diagnostic equipment can do.
Hope this helps!


I only use an SCT device to read and clear codes right now.

And my car doesn't need adaptive learning, it knows when I enter the car and starts to tremble. :rofl3:

These codes have been on my 2002Mustang GT that I use 95 % for road course driving. Not sure it has the adaptive learning like my GT500 has?

[bigb427]

These codes have been on my 2002Mustang GT that I use 95 % for road course driving. Not sure it has the adaptive learning like my GT500 has?

A 2002 does have adaptive strategy. It is not quite as sophisticated as newer vehicles though.

[Tommy Gun]

A 2002 does have adaptive strategy. It is not quite as sophisticated as newer vehicles though.


Ah, thanks. I thought I may have scared it out by now. :rofl3:

[68fastback]

My buddy's '01 Cobra (4.6 DOHC) developed rather severe misfires a couple days after having plugs replaced and engine compartment pressure cleaned (a bad idea for sure). Over a period of a couple months it got progressively better after them changing the plugs again but still occasionally misses. Ford has now changed all the plugs and all the coil paks together and it still occasionally misses ...occasionally at idle too. Amazingly it's never logged a code thru all of that -- at least none are recorded when scanned ...the misfire algorithm seems to be very forgiving as long as the miss is intermittent. At the beginning of the problem it was severe enough that it was barely driveable -- and still no codes found. Ford tech is now getting an OBD recorder to see if he can trap the condition it as it's occurring.

Any ideas bigb427?

(sorry TG, hope you don't mind me barging in ;-) )

[Tommy Gun]

I was surprised the car still ran so well although I could feel/hear a difference. Much different than the old days when cars would stumble bad under these conditions.

Would love to know what it ends up being if they find it Dan.

[68fastback]

Will do ...this dealer moves slower than glaciers tho.

My feeling would be to undo, Electrokleen and spray-seal every connector but they have poo-pooed that idea. I think they feel it's easier to just replace parts, get you pi$$ed and then try to sell you another car (they know you're a hostage in the city -lol). The list of simple things they've screwed up is amazing -- like putting in a GT rack rahter than get the right one and then taking almost a year to discover the 'error.' NYC Ford dealers can be a whole different breed -lol. Too much nonsense for it to be accidental, imo.

[bigb427]

My buddy's '01 Cobra (4.6 DOHC) developed rather severe misfires a couple days after having plugs replaced and engine compartment pressure cleaned (a bad idea for sure). Over a period of a couple months it got progressively better after them changing the plugs again but still occasionally misses. Ford has now changed all the plugs and all the coil paks together and it still occasionally misses ...occasionally at idle too. Amazingly it's never logged a code thru all of that -- at least none are recorded when scanned ...the misfire algorithm seems to be very forgiving as long as the miss is intermittent. At the beginning of the problem it was severe enough that it was barely driveable -- and still no codes found. Ford tech is now getting an OBD recorder to see if he can trap the condition it as it's occurring.

Any ideas bigb427?

(sorry TG, hope you don't mind me barging in ;-) )

Unfortunately intermittent concerns like this can be a royal pain in the ass to diagnose. Most of the time the concern cannot be diagnosed until you can actually duplicate the concern. With a miss that seems to be as infrequent as this one seems to be, it may take quite a bit of driving before a code will finally set. Be sure to not disconnect the battery and do not attempt to clear the computers memory while attempting to fix this. The computer will take a snap shot of various sensor data that is present at the time a fault occurs. This "freeze frame data" can be helpful in diagnosing an intermittent concern. Test driving the car while doing a power balance test may help identify what cylinder is at fault as well as looking at "mode 6 data". I would still suspect a coil or spark plug related concern, but without being able to put my hands on the car it's hard to say for sure. it could be quite a few things causing this concern. It might be worth stress testing the coils also. If the car is at a dealer and/or a Ford tech is working on it, they should know what all I posted means.
Good Luck!

[68fastback]

Unfortunately intermittent concerns like this can be a royal pain in the ass to diagnose. Most of the time the concern cannot be diagnosed until you can actually duplicate the concern. With a miss that seems to be as infrequent as this one seems to be, it may take quite a bit of driving before a code will finally set. Be sure to not disconnect the battery and do not attempt to clear the computers memory while attempting to fix this. The computer will take a snap shot of various sensor data that is present at the time a fault occurs. This "freeze frame data" can be helpful in diagnosing an intermittent concern. Test driving the car while doing a power balance test may help identify what cylinder is at fault as well as looking at "mode 6 data". I would still suspect a coil or spark plug related concern, but without being able to put my hands on the car it's hard to say for sure. it could be quite a few things causing this concern. It might be worth stress testing the coils also. If the car is at a dealer and/or a Ford tech is working on it, they should know what all I posted means.
Good Luck!

...thanks :tiphat: ...the car has gotten over 15K miles of mostly Parkway and Interestate drivin since the initial plug change and power wash that the serious misfires followed. Funny thing is that the car was dead smooth for first 100-120 miles after that. He drove it around town in NY for about 15 miles running errands (no prob), then came up here to visit ...drove 105 miles (no prob at all). Next day, fired it up and we went to a trail-head to do some hiking where it sat for about two hours. When we then fired it up it was like it was on 5 cylinders. Stangest thing I ever saw. We limped back to my place (about 8 miles). Next morning, fired up fine but ideled and ran rough (but not nearly as bad as the before). He headed to his other place in CT (about 160 miles) and it ran like crap for last 40 miles. Next day, ran perfect ...for a while, then settled into random single-cylinder misses ...maybe 15-20/minute! He drove it back to NYC like that and brought it back to Ford which is when they changed all the plugs for the second time and gave it back to him ...a little better but stilll not right. We thought maybe the tune was corrupted (had the stock tune in at this point) so put in the 93 custom (duno) tune ...no real diff -- ditto for an SCT canned 'economy' tune, but the misses were now less consistent maybe once every couple minutes. After maybe 1200 miles like that, they changed the plugs again (:doh2:) and the coil packs (:wtg:) and it stopped almost all of the sever misses and they become even moer occasional ...maybe every 10-15 minutes, but entirely variable. Since then (almost a year) they've been promising to get the recorder. As of last week they said it would arrive soon (sounds hokey to me -lol). Giving you more of the details in case that helps.

I was sort of thinking it was a combo of moisture and coilpak abuse (lol) ...but I thought repalceing it all should have made a dramatic difference, but it didn't. Appreciate any additional thoughts you might have and I'll pass your comments along :tiphat2:

[bigb427]

The big thing is to try and get the car to act up on a regular basis and determine if it's a random misfire or if it keeps occurring on the same one or two cylinders. After that has been done, the only other things I can think to recommend other than what I already posted are to swap injectors, coils, spark plugs as needed with known good cylinders to see if there is any change. Another good thing to do also would be to place a test light in parallel with the affected cylinders coil and injector so one could observe it while test driving the car to see if the signal from the PCM drops out when it is missing. I would also inspect the wire connectors to the coils and injectors very closely at the pins to see if there is a concern like corrosion or on the female pins see if they look spread apart, and lastly make sure the pins are fully inserted into the connector and not loose. Wiggling and lightly pulling on the wiring with the engine running may help find a concern also.
That's all I can think of. Good luck!

[68fastback]

Thanks :tiphat2: ...next time he's up this way I'll check it out ...in the meantime maybe dealer can trap it.

[Tommy Gun]

I'm back at VIR now.

We'll see how well my fixes work. :grin:

[68fastback]

The big thing is to try and get the car to act up on a regular basis and determine if it's a random misfire or if it keeps occurring on the same one or two cylinders. After that has been done, the only other things I can think to recommend other than what I already posted are to swap injectors, coils, spark plugs as needed with known good cylinders to see if there is any change. Another good thing to do also would be to place a test light in parallel with the affected cylinders coil and injector so one could observe it while test driving the car to see if the signal from the PCM drops out when it is missing. I would also inspect the wire connectors to the coils and injectors very closely at the pins to see if there is a concern like corrosion or on the female pins see if they look spread apart, and lastly make sure the pins are fully inserted into the connector and not loose. Wiggling and lightly pulling on the wiring with the engine running may help find a concern also.
That's all I can think of. Good luck!

Hi Big427 ...my friend finally got the dealer to do some diagnostics.

Three charts attached: caption of 'customer states' section (more detail on early symptoms in my earlier posts); Power Balance; and Mode-6 data.

Wanted to get your thoughts for him ...mode-6 shows cyl 1, 2 and 3 with very slight 'misfires' (or at least non-zero values). Any thoughts?

The dealer's verbal feedback (possible sticking valves) seems odd since this began when the dealer chemical-sprayed and power-washed the engine after changing the plugs (2001-cobra, has about 90K miles) but the car ran flawless for all 90K miles and the problem started (and was MUCH worse -- severe misfires, almost undriveable) the day after after plugs/power-wash and is now only very occasional/slight ...I'm thinking spontaneous sticking valves in 3-cylinders that gradually then get better over a period of many months doesn't seem to make sense, but wanted to get your thoughts.

Much appreciate any insight.

(thumbnails at the bottom can be clicked up large if hard to read)


http://stangsunited.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9886&d=1342024806

http://stangsunited.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9888&d=1342024821

http://stangsunited.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9887&d=1342024814

[The Bone]

One big reason not to power wash a engine They just opened Pandora's box. Not the good one ether

[68fastback]

One big reason not to power wash a engine They just opened Pandora's box. Not the good one ether

+1 ...plus we don't know if they did it while the engine was hot :yikes: and if they soaked any electrical connectors, etc. ...bunch of dufi -lol.

[The Bone]

My friend had a Camaro and washed the motor and all sorts of things happened. I told them not to but hay not my car.
The doors would lock and un lock the windows go up and down by them selves and some other stuff. Had to disconnect the battery for a few days for the car to dry out.

[68fastback]

...I'm not surprised.

===

I could not beleive that they used grease solvent and then pressure washed it :doh2: ...dealer said they didn't actually do it -- they use a contractor :doh2:

Well, what's done is done ...just hope they can figure it out.

When it was missing bad I told him to just methodically wiggle every connector to see if any effect, etc, but he just procrastinated so long and now it's so slight that it's going to be very difficult to find.

What's amazing is that it never logged any codes.

[Tommy Gun]

My friend had a Camaro and washed the motor and all sorts of things happened. I told them not to but hay not my car.
The doors would lock and un lock the windows go up and down by them selves and some other stuff. Had to disconnect the battery for a few days for the car to dry out.


I wouldn't admit to a friend having a Camaro. :nonono:


.

[The Bone]

it was a girl

[Tommy Gun]

it was a girl

Okay, that makes sense....

[The Bone]

She had the nicest mullet though

[Tommy Gun]

:ohsnap: