Starter ,...Click,.. but no start.

[badboy500]

Off and on the car will not start,. she clicks but no start. The bat was replaced and is up to par.

Dennis had this prob when working on my car and checked the clutch switch and all was good.At that time they replaced the bat and the car was fine for a short time . Well now it's doing it agin and there is no rime to what it is doing...
I looked at all the fuses and charged the bat ,the lights work strong when clicking the ing over.

This is a off and on thing for I went to the shop today and it started just fine but two days ago no start.....:doh2:

I even slapped the starter old school to see if it was a "flat" dead spot in the starter itself.

NOPE........:wow2::doh2::doh2::doh2::wow2::wow2::s pend::spend:

Help.

[Tommy Gun]

Check all the grounds for a solid connection in case someone didn't tighten something good?




I'd unload the piece of junk when it's running.








:tiptoe:

.

[badboy500]

Check all the grounds for a solid connection in case someone didn't tighten something good?




I'd unload the piece of junk when it's running.








:tiptoe:

.
Ya, I'll do just that....:doh2:

The Elc is good, I know it's not that. It acts just like a dead spot in the starter but it's not.....:doh2:

[Tommy Gun]

Maybe one of the spots they jacked your car up on was the starter? :look:

.

[Tommy Gun]

Starter may have just had it's last days after sitting by those headers for so long?

[Grabber]

Maybe one of the spots they jacked your car up on was the starter? :look:

.

:goodone:

[badboy500]

Help...............!!!!

This has nothing to do with Tasca!!! Don't go there !!!!!

[68fastback]

Dunno how the ECU might be involved in controlling the start cycle but I suspect it still has a mechanical solenoid to engage actual starter current to the starter, so might want to check that as well as the high current leads to/on the starter.

The starter could have just given up the ghost (dunno if these starters have a traditional bendix unit or if it's controlled directly somehow).

Maybe there's some parasitic drain on the battery? The fact that you mentioned it "clicked" seems to imply the solenoid could not engage it's high-current transfer to the starter.

You could try to bypass the solenoid (bridge both high-current lugs on the sides) but be carefull ...a single battery jumper cable works well (or uninsulate pliars handle in a pinch).

First thing might to do a voltage check on the battery ...you should be seeing no less than about 12.4-12.5 volts ...anything less that 11.8 is unlikely to trip the solenoid (jusr click). A totally charged new battery after sitting overnight should still see about 12.65v (over 13v if just off the charger).

[Tommy Gun]

Help...............!!!!

This has nothing to do with Tasca!!! Don't go there !!!!!


:grin:


Just throwing out some guesses. :hiding:

[The Bone]

I would check the wires at the starer. Thats where i would start pardon the pun.
If the battery is good and the ground is tight then it must be something in the starter.

[badboy500]

Dunno how the ECU might be involved in controlling the start cycle but I suspect it still has a mechanical solenoid to engage actual starter current to the starter, so might want to check that as well as the high current leads to/on the starter.

The starter could have just given up the ghost (dunno if these starters have a traditional bendix unit or if it's controlled directly somehow).

Maybe there's some parasitic drain on the battery? The fact that you mentioned it "clicked" seems to imply the solenoid could not engage it's high-current transfer to the starter.

You could try to bypass the solenoid (bridge both high-current lugs on the sides) but be carefull ...a single battery jumper cable works well (or uninsulate pliars handle in a pinch).

First thing might to do a voltage check on the battery ...you should be seeing no less than about 12.4-12.5 volts ...anything less that 11.8 is unlikely to trip the solenoid (jusr click). A totally charged new battery after sitting overnight should still see about 12.65v (over 13v if just off the charger).

1....I checked the voltage as did Dennis, Also the Alt is working just fine at 14.8 v + out put.
2.....New bat and is up to par.
3.......No loose connections.
4..........This has been a on and off prob for some time now and getting more regular as time has passed.
5............Some times with quick cycling of the ignition switch it will submit to starting.

I just don't under stand it, I have seen others post with this prob but never have I herd the "prob was"....

None of this I understand !!!!!......If it was a fuse or a mechanical thing I could understand but I have looked at every thing I can think of.....
My bigest prob with this is,..... I can start the car with no prob one time,... and another it is ....click...click....nothing.:doh2:


I NEED HELP WITH THIS ONE !!!.

[badboy500]

Just so it's clear....The "click " is from under the dash (relay or some thing) not the starter...the starter does nothing,..no sound no nothing.

It's like pot luck as too it will or will not start..:doh2:....

[Tommy Gun]

Is the "click" under the dash another relay that may be going bad?

How about changing out the starter and seeing if it still does it?

If you checked everything then it's the starter. :look:

[The Bone]

There has to be a lose or broken wire somewhere.

[Boston Mike]

There has to be a lose or broken wire somewhere.

There is, but it isn't in the car. :shades:

[Tommy Gun]

There is, but it isn't in the car. :shades:


I've met BB several times, he may be a little short, but I think he can take down any of us! :surprised:


:grin:

.

[Tommy Gun]

Just sayin'

[68fastback]

1....I checked the voltage as did Dennis, Also the Alt is working just fine at 14.8 v + out put.
2.....New bat and is up to par.
3.......No loose connections.
4..........This has been a on and off prob for some time now and getting more regular as time has passed.
5............Some times with quick cycling of the ignition switch it will submit to starting.

I just don't under stand it, I have seen others post with this prob but never have I herd the "prob was"....

None of this I understand !!!!!......If it was a fuse or a mechanical thing I could understand but I have looked at every thing I can think of.....
My bigest prob with this is,..... I can start the car with no prob one time,... and another it is ....click...click....nothing.:doh2:


I NEED HELP WITH THIS ONE !!!.


Just so it's clear....The "click " is from under the dash (relay or some thing) not the starter...the starter does nothing,..no sound no nothing.

It's like pot luck as too it will or will not start..:doh2:....

...either the solenoid or the bendix unit? You can bridge the solenoid to see if that makes the starter engage. If it doesn't, the bendix on the starter (usually has it one the starter) seems most likely. If it's on the starter, usually the starter (only kind I've seen) the starter will need to be replaced. You can verify that by bridging with battery cables directly from the battery to the starter lug and starter housing. If it won't spin even then, the bendix and/or starter itself is shot but it's usually the bendix contacts that overhead and distort and therefore won't engage ...at least I've never seen the starter itself (vs the bedix n the starter) fail unless it was cranked to meltdown.

[Tommy Gun]

I think our solenoid is on the starter?

You have a good point about the bendix "binding".

W the heat of the headers I still think that is the issue, although Badboy won't admit it. :hiding:

[68fastback]

I think our solenoid is on the starter?

You have a good point about the bendix "binding".

W the heat of the headers I still think that is the issue, although Badboy won't admit it. :hiding:

Ah, could be ...I see in this pic (http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/1/3/2008-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500kr-starter)(not an original part but must be similar) that thing on the starter which has got to be the bendix or the solinoid ...or both. Probably can test-jump it from the battery right to that somehow but I'm not familiar with that configuration.

[Tommy Gun]

I believe? It is both.

The solenoid part on top both triggers power to the motor below and triggers the bendix in front of it.

These are very powerful set ups and take a lot of abuse and high torque motors, but still heat can be a problem over time....especially w headers.

Just wait til Monkey Boys goes out and he finds out he has to remove his motor again to change a starter. :ohsnap:

[Gr8snkbite]

Just so it's clear....The "click " is from under the dash (relay or some thing) not the starter...the starter does nothing,..no sound no nothing.

It's like pot luck as too it will or will not start..:doh2:....




you say its intermitten....then i say loose wire somewhere or a wire contact point someplace about to come apart...

[Highwayman]

you say its intermitten....then i say loose wire somewhere or a wire contact point someplace about to come apart...

I agree! I recently had the exact same issue with my Harley, sometimes I push the Start button and it would start, other times all I would get is the relay clicking. As with all intermitten problems I eventually was able to chase the problem down to the power wire from the breaker to the relay as being the problem. It had worn through the insulation where I could not see it until I removed the wire which was not easy to do. So sometimes it was grounding out on the frame and sometimes it wasn't making contact with the frame. Ever since I replaced the wire the bike has started everytime.

[Boston Mike]

I believe? It is both.

The solenoid part on top both triggers power to the motor below and triggers the bendix in front of it.

These are very powerful set ups and take a lot of abuse and high torque motors, but still heat can be a problem over time....especially w headers.

Just wait til Monkey Boys goes out and he finds out he has to remove his motor again to change a starter. :ohsnap:

My Kooks came coated, so I'm hoping that won't be an issue (unless of course BB's headers are coated, in which case I'm probably f*cked).

:waiting:

[Boston Mike]

I believe? It is both.

The solenoid part on top both triggers power to the motor below and triggers the bendix in front of it.

These are very powerful set ups and take a lot of abuse and high torque motors, but still heat can be a problem over time....especially w headers.

Just wait til Monkey Boys goes out and he finds out he has to remove his motor again to change a starter. :ohsnap:

I should add that if I have to (have someone else) pull the engine again anytime, it will be to take the 5.8 block that they are pulling from MC's 2013 and install it.

[Tommy Gun]

:goodpost:

[68fastback]

Header coatings help normalize heat changes but, imo, it would be more the way the engine is used ...BB runs at that track and makes like 800 HP ...that will light up the headers and generate huge heat coated or not, but the coating will normalize it (smooth the radiation) and also reduce radiant heat some. I'm thinking headers also spread the heat among 4 tubes but bring it closer to where the starter is located vs a single pipe from the stock header.

That said, long-cranking (e.g if car won't easily start) will generate more heat in the starter (and in the solenoid-bendix unit too) than headers will, but if no long-cranking has occurred, the headers likely become the main source of heat, however, if the bendix is overheated for any reason the arms (that have the contacts that both make and break current to the starter motor) can distort and prevent proper/adequate or even any contact ...and that seems consistent with BB's observation of it sometimes starting if he clicks it few times.

I've personally experienced that -- one memorable occasion about 4 miles down a dirt back road in the Adirondacks with the Quadravan. Fortunately I was able to get a lift into town (like 15-20 miles away) and he even drove me back! -- piece of cake to change the starter on a 460BB with 2+ feet of ground clearance -lol. I mention this because I to had just recently put a new battery in QV and, in recent weeks, had to crank the starter quite a bit to start it.

I'm wondering if BB might have had some difficult starting on the old battery prior to switching it out ...at the track or wherever ...that plus 800 HP heat blasts could well have distorted components in the solenoid and/or bendix unit. On starters where the bendix has failed, when I've opened it up the bendix contact arms were always physically distorted and the contacts showed signs of excessive heat. Solenoids can fail in a similar way (tho I have no experience with intergrated solenoid/bendix units like on the GT500).

Given the clues from BB so far, it will be interesting to see what it turns out to be. :waiting2: -lol.

[Tommy Gun]

Just a note here....I think Badboy drives the same on the street as he does on the track. :ohsnap:


WHAT???



.

[68fastback]

:rofl3: ...probably right :biggrin:

[badboy500]

Just a note here....I think Badboy drives the same on the street as he does on the track. :ohsnap:


WHAT???



.
LOL ,...........I do.

[badboy500]

I have started the car now some 12 or so times and with no prob, even after I let it idle for 20 min or so (to get the starter as hot as I can) then shut it down and let the eng heat soke the starter. So far she still starts.
I have not done any thing to fix it yet only because I don't know what the prob truly is. The starter works most of the time and all that I can see and test are good.
Others that have had this prob have replaced the starter and still had the prob but never posted what the fix was so for now I will not buy a new starter,only as a last ditch effort will I buy a new starter.
I truly think it's in the wire's some where just dont know where to look.

[badboy500]

My Kooks came coated, so I'm hoping that won't be an issue (unless of course BB's headers are coated, in which case I'm probably f*cked).

:waiting:
Mine are coated, I don't think it's heat only because others that have had this prob had stock ehx sys. There was also a guy with a 6 cyl that had the same prob.

[badboy500]

I agree! I recently had the exact same issue with my Harley, sometimes I push the Start button and it would start, other times all I would get is the relay clicking. As with all intermitten problems I eventually was able to chase the problem down to the power wire from the breaker to the relay as being the problem. It had worn through the insulation where I could not see it until I removed the wire which was not easy to do. So sometimes it was grounding out on the frame and sometimes it wasn't making contact with the frame. Ever since I replaced the wire the bike has started everytime.

Thinking the same thing,..just can't find where it is...:ninja3:

[badboy500]

I believe? It is both.

The solenoid part on top both triggers power to the motor below and triggers the bendix in front of it.

These are very powerful set ups and take a lot of abuse and high torque motors, but still heat can be a problem over time....especially w headers.

Just wait til Monkey Boys goes out and he finds out he has to remove his motor again to change a starter. :ohsnap:


One does not need to remove/lift the eng to remove the starter on this car do they ????

[Tommy Gun]

One does not need to remove/lift the eng to remove the starter on this car do they ????

Monkey does. :popcorn:


Lol

[68fastback]

Great that it's not doing it anymore!

There's like a 1" braided strap that bridges ground from the rear of the solenoid/bendix case to the starter case -- looks like it's bolted on the solenoid/bendix end and the other end is unclear -- almost looks like it was manufactured right into a lug (?) on the stater housing.

Screen-shot blow-up:

http://stangsunited.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9920&d=1342978058


Since it seems like a common problem, I wonder if there's just some dirt getting on one of the solenoid or the bendix high-current contacts? Possibly a piece of starter brush material or other debris that's now cleaned itself off?

Hope it doesn't rear it's ugly head again ...intermittant probs are such a PITA.

[Alloy Dave]

Dave, the fact that the "lights are strong" when you turn the key is a clue. That means the starter is not pulling high amperage....so it's very unlikely that it's the starter itself. Yes, there are multiple ways a starter can fail, but the most common way would result in high amperage pull...and you're not seeing that. I agree that the issue is likely a loose wire. Next time it does it...STOP....jack the car up, and get a voltmeter on the lug on the starter...my guess is that you'll find no voltage during cranking...which would support the "loose wire" theory. Then it's a matter of tracing back...you may need a wiring schematic to do this. Or, focus on areas that have been modified...which in your case is nearly every nut and bolt on the car. :hilarious:

Good luck.

[Tommy Gun]

Nearly?

[badboy500]

Dave, the fact that the "lights are strong" when you turn the key is a clue. That means the starter is not pulling high amperage....so it's very unlikely that it's the starter itself. Yes, there are multiple ways a starter can fail, but the most common way would result in high amperage pull...and you're not seeing that. I agree that the issue is likely a loose wire. Next time it does it...STOP....jack the car up, and get a voltmeter on the lug on the starter...my guess is that you'll find no voltage during cranking...which would support the "loose wire" theory. Then it's a matter of tracing back...you may need a wiring schematic to do this. Or, focus on areas that have been modified...which in your case is nearly every nut and bolt on the car. :hilarious:

Good luck.
Thats what I will do. Where would I find just the starter schematic ???

[badboy500]

Nearly?

LOl...

[badboy500]

Great that it's not doing it anymore!

There's like a 1" braided strap that bridges ground from the rear of the solenoid/bendix case to the starter case -- looks like it's bolted on the solenoid/bendix end and the other end is unclear -- almost looks like it was manufactured right into a lug (?) on the stater housing.

Screen-shot blow-up:

http://stangsunited.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9920&d=1342978058


Since it seems like a common problem, I wonder if there's just some dirt getting on one of the solenoid or the bendix high-current contacts? Possibly a piece of starter brush material or other debris that's now cleaned itself off?

Hope it doesn't rear it's ugly head again ...intermittant probs are such a PITA.

Yes they are,it's like it's busted but not....:doh2:

I will take a closer look at that neg strap.
Thanks Dan.

[Tommy Gun]

LOl...

:grin:

[Gr8snkbite]

One does not need to remove/lift the eng to remove the starter on this car do they ????

If I remember correctly, lifting the pass side or pulling the pass side exh manifold will yield better access....it's a byotch to remove otherwise..

[Alloy Dave]

Thats what I will do. Where would I find just the starter schematic ???I don't think you will find just a starter shematic....I was suggesting a wiring diagram for the entire car. Typically this would be on numerous pages, with each "system" on a different page or set of pages. I don't know for sure, but try a Chiltons or Motors manual....or perhaps even Ford sells such a book.

[Alloy Dave]

This is not perfect...but a start. I think it's for a 2011...can't find the 2007.

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=710&viewfile=020 - Starting System.pdf


It gives you the wire colors, which should be helpful...the hard part will be locating the physical positions of the various modules.