Building a detached garage

[Joe G]

With interest rates so low, we're hoping to fold the cost of a detached garage into the cost of building the new house.

Will use it to store the 2 Mustangs, as well as a shop and storage for the lawn tractor, kids toys etc.


Getting prices from a few guys right now. Proposed size is approx 36' wide x 48' deep - good for 3 cars wide, 2 cars deep. Not sure on height, but I want it high enough so that I can have a lift in the future on one side (so no storage above), and will put some type of 2nd story storage with basic stairs up to the upper level. Not sure how big the storage area will be... suggestions?

[68fastback]

That's huge! You could fit three cars deep in 48' but the space won't be wasted. 36' wide is also very generous ...enough for 3 cars across plus a workspace along the side. Sounds like it will be an awasome garage!! If you've got the space and the financing might as well make it what you want ...this is certainly the best time to do. Exciting time for sure!!

A couple of thoughts: buildings that big tend to accrue a lot of expense in the roof system. Depending on house location, etc two garages placed near one another might actually be more flexible and may actually be cheaper ...and/or permit better access? One for the vehicles used daily and larger one for the 'stangs, lift and workshop? ...think about specific use patterns, especially winter use patterns. Tie those patterns into the home's use patterns too. Two garages can also be more effectively used to manage/isolate spaces ...if not for privacy then just to create functional separations. Also, a small part of one garage might be planned as a cabana for the pool (assuming), etc. Lots of possibilities depending on the overall concept and placement on the land, etc.

[Tommy Gun]

:spend: :faint:

[Carnut]

Exterior walls over 12 feet is about the limit for 2x6 without a lateral bracing system (ie 2nd floor diaphram) due to windload. Maybe a prefab metal building with a mezzanine type structure would save you big dollars. It's likely your local building department will require a structural engineer with what it sounds like your building.

[68fastback]

That's huge! You could fit three cars deep in 48' but the space won't be wasted. 36' wide is also very generous ...enough for 3 cars across plus a workspace along the side. Sounds like it will be an awasome garage!! If you've got the space and the financing might as well make it what you want ...this is certainly the best time to do. Exciting time for sure!!

A couple of thoughts: buildings that big tend to accrue a lot of expense in the roof system. Depending on house location, etc two garages placed near one another might actually be more flexible and may actually be cheaper ...and/or permit better access? One for the vehicles used daily and larger one for the 'stangs, lift and workshop? ...think about specific use patterns, especially winter use patterns. Tie those patterns into the home's use patterns too. Two garages can also be more effectively used to manage/isolate spaces ...if not for privacy then just to create functional separations. Also, a small part of one garage might be planned as a cabana for the pool (assuming), etc. Lots of possibilities depending on the overall concept and placement on the land, etc.

...another possibility is to T the main garage into the back of the house (drive behind) or on the side with the other detatched ...come to think of it, Grabby has a config like this, I think.

Depending on the style of the house, one garage could be the anchor of a porch/'breezeway' tied to the house by roof-only and the other fully detached and at a right-angle to the first (or however works for the site and use patterns, etc).

[68fastback]

:spend: :faint:

:rofl3:

[Carnut]

...another possibility is to T the main garage into the back of the house (drive behind) or on the side with the other detatched ...come to think of it, Grabby has a config like this, I think.

Depending on the style of the house, one garage could be the anchor of a porch/'breezeway' tied to the house by roof-only and the other fully detached and at a right-angle to the first (or however works for the site and use patterns, etc).

Yeah, but then it could be considered all one structure and there may be code limitations as well as hefty fire seperation wall. Hope you have TG's money.

Maybe you could enclose a pool with a waterfall inside too. Be great for those cold winters.

[68fastback]

Yeah, but then it could be considered all one structure and there may be code limitations as well as hefty fire seperation wall. Hope you have TG's money.

Maybe you could enclose a pool with a waterfall inside too. Be great for those cold winters.

..don't forget the gym, cold-tank and sauna!! :grin:

[Tommy Gun]

He'll just keep the pool outside for ice fishing....he doesn't catch anything anyhow.

[Joe G]

That's huge! You could fit three cars deep in 48' but the space won't be wasted. 36' wide is also very generous ...enough for 3 cars across plus a workspace along the side. Sounds like it will be an awasome garage!! If you've got the space and the financing might as well make it what you want ...this is certainly the best time to do. Exciting time for sure!!

A couple of thoughts: buildings that big tend to accrue a lot of expense in the roof system. Depending on house location, etc two garages placed near one another might actually be more flexible and may actually be cheaper ...and/or permit better access? One for the vehicles used daily and larger one for the 'stangs, lift and workshop? ...think about specific use patterns, especially winter use patterns. Tie those patterns into the home's use patterns too. Two garages can also be more effectively used to manage/isolate spaces ...if not for privacy then just to create functional separations. Also, a small part of one garage might be planned as a cabana for the pool (assuming), etc. Lots of possibilities depending on the overall concept and placement on the land, etc.

Contractor said that 36' was a good size due to the standard sizing of the roof truss.

Really just chose 48' long based on 2 cars deep + room between them and the back to have work bench/cabinets etc. I'm not set on the specific dimensions yet. Got one estimate so far and while I'm making a few changes to it, it won't change the overall price too much - and surprisingly it was within the budget (under $40k).

Going to rough in a bathroom in the back corner, but not doing anything with it for a while. Same with electric - I'll probably see if I can get whoever we have wire the house just add on to run a line to the garage and then finish it later (I wired the basement when we finished it in the last house, just had an electrician friend look everything over and then make the final connections for me to make sure it was to code).

Can't do 2 auxiliary "out buildings", so whatever we want we have to do it under one roof.

[Joe G]

:spend: :faint:Remember... I'm in Goatsville. Much cheaper than Vagina Beach. :2cents:

[Joe G]

Exterior walls over 12 feet is about the limit for 2x6 without a lateral bracing system (ie 2nd floor diaphram) due to windload. Maybe a prefab metal building with a mezzanine type structure would save you big dollars. It's likely your local building department will require a structural engineer with what it sounds like your building.Good to know.

I thought about a metal "pole barn" type shop, but it's not allowed in my area.

[Joe G]

...another possibility is to T the main garage into the back of the house (drive behind) or on the side with the other detatched ...come to think of it, Grabby has a config like this, I think.

Depending on the style of the house, one garage could be the anchor of a porch/'breezeway' tied to the house by roof-only and the other fully detached and at a right-angle to the first (or however works for the site and use patterns, etc).

Can't do that with the design of our house and the lot. It should kind of face the main garage. See this simple sketch of the potential layout of the house/attached garage, detached garage and driveway.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/House-garagesketch.jpg

[Joe G]

How deep should I make the concrete floor if I may put a lift in in the future?

[Tommy Gun]

Remember... I'm in Goatsville. Much cheaper than Vagina Beach. :2cents:
A garage that size here would be pushing $175,000 finished, how much cheaper could it be? :rolleyes:

[Joe G]

A garage that size here would be pushing $175,000 finished, how much cheaper could it be? :rolleyes:1) it won't be finished. Since you don't read back.... interior will be roughed in. No bathroom. No electric. No plumbing. Basic stairs up to the unfinished upper storage.

I'll run my own wiring, air lines (for compressor) and insulate down the road.

2) About 20% of your cost. :look:

[Orf]

- and surprisingly it was within the budget (under $40k).

The garage I built is 44' x 24', with a 16' x 16' shop above/tractor storage below. I GC'd it, and will finish the inside myself. I'm at $82K right now, and will be approaching $100K by the time it's done.

If you are getting 48' x 36' for under $40K, I would recommend you get a spec sheet on how everything will be built/finished, and give it a careful reading. Even in goat country, that sounds low to me. Of course, if you're slab on grade, then it might be doable. I have 10' of block under the shop, and 3' of block below grade for the rest. Oh, and I also made mine look like the house, which adds cost.

44' wide is good for three 9' doors and a man door on the end. 36' will be a little tight for 3 cars, IMHO. You'll have to be careful when opening car doors inside.

[68fastback]

Can't do that with the design of our house and the lot. It should kind of face the main garage. See this simple sketch of the potential layout of the house/attached garage, detached garage and driveway.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/House-garagesketch.jpg

Nice general layout, Joe. Ok, so the 36x48 is in addition to the attached garage.

You may want to bury a minimum of 4 ga wire (3 conductors + ground) ....at 100' total run (must include verticals, etc) from panel to panel (what end of house main service entrance panel will be on will affect the distance for sure) should cover an 80a subpanel at 100' total or a 100amp sub at 80' total (just arbitrary distances so you have a rough idea).

On the slab thickness ...worthwhile checking with a lift manufacturer for their specs. Also a good idea to have the sub-material power tamped. The size and amount of aggregate and size and placement of wire mats and/or rebar in the concrete may also matter since lifts exert decent point-source loads. Most garage slabs are 4" of 3,000 psi concrete around here. My *guess* would be that 5 or 6" of standard 3000 psi mix with standard wire will handle most any residential lift point loads ...but still worth checking with a lift manufacturer, imo, to get an actual spec.

[Joe G]

The garage I built is 44' x 24', with a 16' x 16' shop above/tractor storage below. I GC'd it, and will finish the inside myself. I'm at $82K right now, and will be approaching $100K by the time it's done.

If you are getting 48' x 36' for under $40K, I would recommend you get a spec sheet on how everything will be built/finished, and give it a careful reading. Even in goat country, that sounds low to me. Of course, if you're slab on grade, then it might be doable. I have 10' of block under the shop, and 3' of block below grade for the rest. Oh, and I also made mine look like the house, which adds cost.

44' wide is good for three 9' doors and a man door on the end. 36' will be a little tight for 3 cars, IMHO. You'll have to be careful when opening car doors inside.

Thanks. When we were dreaming about it 2 years ago I got some quotes (the garage was more like 40x40 then... but overall the same) and quotes were about $40-50k. Again, the interior isn't finished at all, so I'm sure there's a bunch of savings there.


Yes, it's a flat area so it's just going to be a slab with very little grading needed.

Plus, because of the layout of where it will be on the lot, it will be partly hidden from the front so we're not putting brick/stone etc on the exterior. Sticking with decent vinyl siding that will compliment the house colors we pick out. My bro-in-law lays brick for living so we can have him add stone work later to better match the house if I come into TG type money.

[Joe G]

Nice general layout, Joe. Ok, so the 36x48 is in addition to the attached garage.
:yes:

[Joe G]

You may want to bury a minimum of 4 ga wire (3 conductors + ground) ....at 100' total run (must include verticals, etc) from panel to panel (what end of house main service entrance panel will be on will affect the distance for sure) should cover an 80a subpanel at 100' total or a 100amp sub at 80' total (just arbitrary distances so you have a rough idea).Yeah, I'll have power brought in before the driveway and house is finished for sure.

I figure a 100 amp panel is plenty and is easy to get. 110/120v for outlets and lights and 220/240v for a compressor and the lift etc. down the road.

[Joe G]

On the slab thickness ...worthwhile checking with a lift manufacturer for their specs. Also a good idea to have the sub-material power tamped. The size and amount of aggregate and size and placement of wire mats and/or rebar in the concrete may also matter since lifts exert decent point-source loads. Most garage slabs are 4" of 3,000 psi concrete around here. My *guess* would be that 5 or 6" of standard 3000 psi mix with standard wire will handle most any residential lift point loads ...but still worth checking with a lift manufacturer, imo, to get an actual spec.Good idea.

Bendpak says 4" mininum of 3000 psi mix.

I'll probably go up on both thickness and psi rating just to be safe.

:tiphat:

[rown4au]

the house we bought in Texas has a large shop behind it and the only down side is all that space will ruin you for only having "normal" garage again and you will not have the excuse that you don't have space for that "cheap" project car you stumble across...

Our shop is 40 x 60 with 13 foot ceilings and a small office and bathroom off the back corner. I love it but if I was building it from scratch there are a few things I would have done differently:

Split the shop up into at east two rooms so you can have a "dirty" area so you don't get dust or dirt from whatever project you are working on all over your clean cars. I would also separate the workshop area out if you do any woodworking for the same reason otherwise everything will end up covered in dirt and sawdust.

In your area I would look into in floor heating as I believe it is cheaper and you will want heat out there in the great white north.

You can never have too many outlets, both 120 and 220.

Plan for a compressor closet and insulate it so you don't have the racket in the shop.

There are tons of great ideas on the garage journal bulletin board... warning however it is addictive:waiting2:

[Joe G]

the house we bought in Texas has a large shop behind it and the only down side is all that space will ruin you for only having "normal" garage again and you will not have the excuse that you don't have space for that "cheap" project car you stumble across...

Our shop is 40 x 60 with 13 foot ceilings and a small office and bathroom off the back corner. I love it but if I was building it from scratch there are a few things I would have done differently:

Split the shop up into at east two rooms so you can have a "dirty" area so you don't get dust or dirt from whatever project you are working on all over your clean cars. I would also separate the workshop area out if you do any woodworking for the same reason otherwise everything will end up covered in dirt and sawdust.

In your area I would look into in floor heating as I believe it is cheaper and you will want heat out there in the great white north.

You can never have too many outlets, both 120 and 220.

Plan for a compressor closet and insulate it so you don't have the racket in the shop.

There are tons of great ideas on the garage journal bulletin board... warning however it is addictive:waiting2:Great suggestions, thanks!


Have a link for that garage forum?

[rown4au]

One of these days I will get around to putting a thread up about my shop but this is the one I put up on garage journal:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134516

[Joe G]

One of these days I will get around to putting a thread up about my shop but this is the one I put up on garage journal:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134516:tiphat:

Guess I have some catching up to do... :reading:

[onecrazydog]

With interest rates so low, we're hoping to fold the cost of a detached garage into the cost of building the new house.

Will use it to store the 2 Mustangs, as well as a shop and storage for the lawn tractor, kids toys etc.


Getting prices from a few guys right now. Proposed size is approx 36' wide x 48' deep - good for 3 cars wide, 2 cars deep. Not sure on height, but I want it high enough so that I can have a lift in the future on one side (so no storage above), and will put some type of 2nd story storage with basic stairs up to the upper level. Not sure how big the storage area will be... suggestions?


Nice size!! You could do 12 ft high walls for the lift... To get a bit extra height you could do about 20 feet of vaulted trusses and the rest in the storage room trusses...

[Joe G]

:tiphat:

Guess I have some catching up to do... :reading:Can't see any of the pictures. :banghead:

[68fastback]

Can't see any of the pictures. :banghead:

...probably have to register first ?

[Tommy Gun]

:duh:


:dufus:

[Tommy Gun]

Joe, you should sign up as Tim Allen :look:














.
















....or Keith Thomas. :rofl3:

[Joe G]

....or Keith Thomas. :rofl3::idea:

[Gr8snkbite]

:hey2:

[Gr8snkbite]

interesting subject as i have been contemplating this for weeks now.....:grin:

tho mine would be smaller, just big enough for a car and workshop...

[Birdman]

Good to know.

I thought about a metal "pole barn" type shop, but it's not allowed in my area.

In your case it would be the cheapest way to go IMO...They can finish them to match your house if that is why they don't allow them? Talk to Jim about it as he just finished building his garage.

[Joe G]

In your case it would be the cheapest way to go IMO...They can finish them to match your house if that is why they don't allow them? Hmmm... I'll have to check that out.

It can't be that metal roof/siding.

[Carnut]

Good idea.

Bendpak says 4" mininum of 3000 psi mix.

I'll probably go up on both thickness and psi rating just to be safe.

:tiphat:

To avoid the extra expense of concrete, you just need to thicken the slab at the post areas only, Say a 4 by 4 square at each post. Won't cost you anything that way.

I'm cheap old codger, gotta squeeze them pennies.

[Joe G]

To avoid the extra expense of concrete, you just need to thicken the slab at the post areas only, Say a 4 by 4 square at each post. Won't cost you anything that way.

I'm cheap old codger, gotta squeeze them pennies.:logical:

Thanks again Mr. Nut! :tiphat:

[Carnut]

:uwelcome:

[King Cobra]

To avoid the extra expense of concrete, you just need to thicken the slab at the post areas only, Say a 4 by 4 square at each post. Won't cost you anything that way.

I'm cheap old codger, gotta squeeze them pennies.

:goodpost::iagree:

[Tommy Gun]

I'd still like to see what you can build for $30-$40 in your area.

That won't build anything here.

Even bare minimum here and roughly 20 x 30 would be $100,000 here.

Already checked all these things.

[Joe G]

I'd still like to see what you can build for $30-$40 in your area.

That won't build anything here.

Even bare minimum here and roughly 20 x 30 would be $100,000 here.

Already checked all these things.You can come over and see it when it's done. :wtg:

[Tommy Gun]

Are you withing 4.5 hours of me? :popcorn:

.

[Joe G]

Are you withing 4.5 hours of me? :popcorn:

.Yes if you're driving a fast BLACK car. :chirp:

[Tommy Gun]

Guess i won't be there.

[Joe G]

Guess i won't be there.Didn't figure you would.

[Tommy Gun]

:banghead:

[onecrazydog]

I'd still like to see what you can build for $30-$40 in your area.

That won't build anything here.

Even bare minimum here and roughly 20 x 30 would be $100,000 here.

Already checked all these things.


My 24x24 garage cost me 17 grand to build, including concrete and tearing my old one down...

[Tommy Gun]

My 24x24 garage cost me 17 grand to build, including concrete and tearing my old one down...


In 1969 ?

[Tommy Gun]

I should always listen to Joe.
I should always listen to Joe.
I should always listen to Joe.
I should always listen to Joe.
I should always listen to Joe.
I should always listen to Joe.

[Joe G]

:haha:

I like this trend.

[Tommy Gun]

:rofl3:

[68fastback]

...my 20x24 cost approx. 23K ...in 1999 ...4' frost-wall block foundation on 16"x8" footing, 2x6 walls, trusses w/3' overhang, shingled roof, two large Anderson awning windows, two oversize insulated overhead garage doors with 1/2HP openers, 1 quality steel side door. Vinyl siding, etc, to match house. Basic garage at a good price. That didn't include electric/subpanel (flat price w/the house on a handshake). Garage built by an old-timer and his son (I worked with them), "time and materials" with no mark-up on materials. Trusses sourced from a mill in the southern Adirondacks (cheap -lol), eveything else sources locally. Each Friday he'd tally up all the labor but only ask for payment on the materials. He told me never pay a contractor for their labor until the job is done. His other son is the town building code enforcement officer. Just good honest folks.

Sometimes you can get excellent referrals from a contractor with a great reputation -- prefereably one who has no skin in the deal and doesn't advertise in the yellow pages (lol) and has more business than he can handle just from word-of-mouth referrals. Those guys are hard to find, but they're out there ...and their subtrades often ofter great value and aren't afraid to work hard because they're not optimizing on profit -- they're optimizing reputation for the long-haul ...so they're always stacked-up.

Things are different over the past few years, but the subtrades I know who fall in that 'special' category are very busy even while many others have been struggling to survive through the downturn -- reputation is everything around here. Handshakes are like contracts with the right guys,

[Carnut]

Is this still happening?

[68fastback]

no ...

10131 :giggle:

[Carnut]

:birdpoo:

[Joe G]

:hey2:

:backontopic:

[68fastback]

...what were talking about? we're all old. :haha:

[Birdman]

eh......could you repeat that again......:rofl3:

[Tommy Gun]

...my 20x24 cost approx. 23K ...in 1999 ...4' frost-wall block foundation on 16"x8" footing, 2x6 walls, trusses w/3' overhang, shingled roof, two large Anderson awning windows, two oversize insulated overhead garage doors with 1/2HP openers, 1 quality steel side door. Vinyl siding, etc, to match house. Basic garage at a good price. That didn't include electric/subpanel (flat price w/the house on a handshake). Garage built by an old-timer and his son (I worked with them), "time and materials" with no mark-up on materials. Trusses sourced from a mill in the southern Adirondacks (cheap -lol), eveything else sources locally. Each Friday he'd tally up all the labor but only ask for payment on the materials. He told me never pay a contractor for their labor until the job is done. His other son is the town building code enforcement officer. Just good honest folks.

Sometimes you can get excellent referrals from a contractor with a great reputation -- prefereably one who has no skin in the deal and doesn't advertise in the yellow pages (lol) and has more business than he can handle just from word-of-mouth referrals. Those guys are hard to find, but they're out there ...and their subtrades often ofter great value and aren't afraid to work hard because they're not optimizing on profit -- they're optimizing reputation for the long-haul ...so they're always stacked-up.

Things are different over the past few years, but the subtrades I know who fall in that 'special' category are very busy even while many others have been struggling to survive through the downturn -- reputation is everything around here. Handshakes are like contracts with the right guys,

The price of wood has seemed to double, maybe triple in the last 10-12 years.

.

[68fastback]

...I don't doubt it.

In 1999 spruce 2x4s were $.99 -- they're like $2.09 now (a few weeks ago, anyway). The cost of fuel -- harvesting, trucking to the mill, milling, trucking to warehouse, trucking to retailers, etc) is likely a major contributor.

Ditto for potato chips ...99 cent bag back then is now 2.49! They're not heavy but they take lots of space/lb.

But we don't need cheap fuel :nonono: ...don't need that :canada: pipeline :nonono: ...don't need cheap matural gas :nonono: ...but apparently do need windpower (at 2-3x the true cost) :doh2:, ethanol (really just to dilute gas with low-energy but high ocatane and causes more damage than it's worth, like staggering increases in food prices) :doh2: and other BS distractions. Meanwhile China is cleaning our clock in global resource management (they'll likely sign w/:canada: soon), control most of the worlds strategic metals, and are playing hardball while we pi$$ away our hard-earned competitiveness on myopic political drivel. What a deal. :banghead:

[Tommy Gun]

Why don't you go ahead and tell us how you really feel about it Dan? :popcorn:






:rofl3:

.

[68fastback]

ok then ...














:haha:

[Tommy Gun]

:grin:

[Alloy Dave]

I'd put in a floor trench drain so you can wash things inside in winter (so long as it's not freezing). THere may be code issues with the drain...they don't want you dumping gray water into the soil...so get lots of approvals for whatever you do.

Put a slope on the floor too so it's easy to wash out. They put about 3" slope on mine over about 30', but that was not enough....I still get some puddling of water. You'll have to look at it next time you're here.

Make sure to put a couple 240V outlets in for your pair of Prius Hybrids.

[Joe G]

I'd put in a floor trench drain so you can wash things inside in winter (so long as it's not freezing). THere may be code issues with the drain...they don't want you dumping gray water into the soil...so get lots of approvals for whatever you do.

Put a slope on the floor too so it's easy to wash out. They put about 3" slope on mine over about 30', but that was not enough....I still get some puddling of water. You'll have to look at it next time you're here.
.Good thoughts. Appreciate the suggestions.


Would you recommend a smooth finish to the concrete floor, or something with a little "grit" to it?

I'm thinking the smooth one would look better and be easier to sweep/wash off, but could be slick when wet, oily or even during winter. The rougher finish wouldn't be slick, but would be a pain to sweep and wash off.

[Joe G]

Make sure to put a couple 240V outlets in for your pair of Prius Hybrids.Thanks. :tiphat:














I mean... :hey2:



I'll have plenty of power out there for lights, outlets, future bathroom and future tools (compressor, lift etc).

[Boston Mike]

Good thoughts. Appreciate the suggestions.


Would you recommend a smooth finish to the concrete floor, or something with a little "grit" to it?

I'm thinking the smooth one would look better and be easier to sweep/wash off, but could be slick when wet, oily or even during winter. The rougher finish wouldn't be slick, but would be a pain to sweep and wash off.

Go with an epoxy with "sand" in the final coat. I forget what the "sand" is really called, but it gives it a tack for grip, but is still easy to clean (swiffer). My guy cost me $1300 (but mine was not a basic one color finish).

[Orf]

Go with an epoxy with "sand" in the final coat. I forget what the "sand" is really called, but it gives it a tack for grip, but is still easy to clean (swiffer). My guy cost me $1300 (but mine was not a basic one color finish).

A swiffer in a garage?

I better bite my tongue....

[Boston Mike]

A swiffer in a garage?

I better bite my tongue.... works for sawdust and dirt...............not so much oil and liquid spills.

[Orf]

works for sawdust and dirt...............not so much oil and liquid spills.

I don't care if it works. Something called a "swiffer" has no place in a Man Cave...

[Highwayman]

I don't care if it works. Something called a "swiffer" has no place in a Man Cave...

Definitely +1

[Boston Mike]

I don't care if it works. Something called a "swiffer" has no place in a Man Cave...

Sorry, I will go buy some rusty steel wool and gorilla glue it to the end of an old fence picket. Is that better?

[Orf]

Sorry, I will go buy some rusty steel wool and gorilla glue it to the end of an old fence picket. Is that better?

That's overboard. A simple, stiff bristle, push broom will suffice.

[Joe G]

That's overboard. A simple, stiff bristle, push broom will suffice.:iagree:


No Swiffer will touch the man cave. :bigboss:











(oh... and good suggestion Mikey. I'll see how the budget goes. May need to be an adder for later as the house is currently WAY over budget. :spend:)

[Boston Mike]

:iagree:


No Swiffer will touch the man cave. :bigboss:











(oh... and good suggestion Mikey. I'll see how the budget goes. May need to be an adder for later as the house is currently WAY over budget. :spend:)

You can do it yourself for much cheaper I'm sure, if you don't mind sniffing fumes.

[Boston Mike]

That's overboard. A simple, stiff bristle, push broom will suffice.To each their own.

[Joe G]

... if you don't mind sniffing fumes.Sounds like a 2 for 1 benefit then. :woohoo:



:rofl3:

[Joe G]

Exterior walls over 12 feet is about the limit for 2x6 without a lateral bracing system (ie 2nd floor diaphram) due to windload. Maybe a prefab metal building with a mezzanine type structure would save you big dollars. It's likely your local building department will require a structural engineer with what it sounds like your building.



I thought about a metal "pole barn" type shop, but it's not allowed in my area.


In your case it would be the cheapest way to go IMO...They can finish them to match your house if that is why they don't allow them? Talk to Jim about it as he just finished building his garage.


Hmmm... I'll have to check that out.

It can't be that metal roof/siding.Well, I got the developer to approve the "post frame" (pole barn) type building. As long as the siding colors are the same as the house colors, and they want shingle roofing vs. a metal roof.

This should save me a ton of money. First quote is around $35k, but they need to change the roofing (originally quoted metal roof).

[onecrazydog]

Well, I got the developer to approve the "post frame" (pole barn) type building. As long as the siding colors are the same as the house colors, and they want shingle roofing vs. a metal roof.

This should save me a ton of money. First quote is around $35k, but they need to change the roofing (originally quoted metal roof).

Cool, shingles will be way cheaper, and quieter!!

[mustang loco]

Cool, shingles will be way cheaper, and quieter!!

+1,Agree

[Joe G]

Cool, shingles will be way cheaper, and quieter!!Not necessarily. I was told that because they're heavier (shingles, roofing felt, particle board etc), they'll need to decrease the spacing on the roof trusses - which means more of them, and a higher cost. Hopefully the lower cost of the shingles vs. the metal roof will make the switch at least cost neutral.

[68fastback]

Joe, just for comparo ...even around here trusses 24"OC with 5/8" roof sheeting (required H-clips at 24", doesn't at 16"OC) meets all codes and for the heavier architectural shingles too. Is your code similar?

[Joe G]

Joe, just for comparo ...even around here trusses 24"OC with 5/8" roof sheeting (required H-clips at 24", doesn't at 16"OC) meets all codes and for the heavier architectural shingles too. Is your code similar?That's what I'm finding too.

The standard metal roof only required 48"OC trusses.

[68fastback]

That's what I'm finding too.

The standard metal roof only required 48"OC trusses.

But then must use purlins (horizontal members ...perp. to trusses) and heavier russes to support the metal roofing material and carry the winter dead load respectively. Metal would be quite noisy in rain, but is a tried and true system used on many old post & beam structures too around here. metal can also go over shething. Exposed metal roofs (over purlins) will rediate a lot of heat downward in summer too, though some metal roofs (like GE Galvalume) is designed to reject at least some of it (qualifies for energy credits on residential structures too, I beleive). I guess I'd go with the shingle roof 24OC. The trusses can be of smaller members since there's 2x as many ...costs are probably close either way (dunno for sure how close -- haven't piced one out in at least 10 years).

[Joe G]

But then must use purlins (horizontal members ...perp. to trusses) and heavier russes to support the metal roofing material and carry the winter dead load respectively. Metal would be quite noisy in rain, but is a tried and true system used on many old post & beam structures too around here. metal can also go over shething. Exposed metal roofs (over purlins) will rediate a lot of heat downward in summer too, though some metal roofs (like GE Galvalume) is designed to reject at least some of it (qualifies for energy credits on residential structures too, I beleive). I guess I'd go with the shingle roof 24OC. The trusses can be of smaller members since there's 2x as many ...costs are probably close either way (dunno for sure how close -- haven't piced one out in at least 10 years).Thanks.

Yes, there would have been some horizontal braces (didn't know their name) with the wider spacing and metal sheeting, but it really doesn't matter as the only way it will be approved is if I use shingles. Hope I can count on that loan from the Bank of TG coming through. :shades:



:giggle:

[68fastback]

Thanks.

Yes, there would have been some horizontal braces (didn't know their name) with the wider spacing and metal sheeting, but it really doesn't matter as the only way it will be approved is if I use shingles. Hope I can count on that loan from the Bank of TG coming through. :shades:



:giggle:

:lol: TGNB :giggle:

ah! ...I forgot that you had to have shingles ...ok, then ... :biggrin:

[Shlbylvr]

:iagree:


No Swiffer will touch the man cave. :bigboss:











(oh... and good suggestion Mikey. I'll see how the budget goes. May need to be an adder for later as the house is currently WAY over budget. :spend:)

I'm sending debbie a swiffer as a Garage warming gift for you.

[Joe G]

I'm sending debbie a swiffer as a Garage warming gift for you.:boink:

[The Bone]

Where is Dave in all this. Dont tell us he went for doughnuts and never came back

[Joe G]

Dont tell us he went for doughnuts and never came backTerry1234 delivered them this morning. http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/Blackberry%20pics/IMG-20120818-00218.jpg

[Shlbylvr]

:boink:

Oohh OK I'll include the freaking Liquid stuff too.

[Joe G]

Oohh OK I'll include the freaking Liquid stuff too.What stuff?

[Shlbylvr]

What stuff?

opps I have the wrong swiffer product.

[Alloy Dave]

Good thoughts. Appreciate the suggestions.


Would you recommend a smooth finish to the concrete floor, or something with a little "grit" to it?

I'm thinking the smooth one would look better and be easier to sweep/wash off, but could be slick when wet, oily or even during winter. The rougher finish wouldn't be slick, but would be a pain to sweep and wash off.Are you going to stain or coat it? If yes, then smooth...and you can add grit with the coating. I would certainly NOT do a "broom" finish...way too rough. I don't know if there's something in between. If you only have the two, I'd choose smooth.

[Alloy Dave]

Go with an epoxy with "sand" in the final coat. I forget what the "sand" is really called, but it gives it a tack for grip, but is still easy to clean (swiffer). My guy cost me $1300 (but mine was not a basic one color finish).:goodpost:

[Joe G]

:wow2:

Surprised no one noticed that this thread died and was never updated with the final results. :giggle:

[onecrazydog]

:waiting2:

[Tommy Gun]

:wow2:

Surprised no one noticed that this thread died and was never updated with the final results. :giggle:


We knew it would only be used as a storage unit and place for gardening tools rather than a garage. :look:

[Joe G]

We knew it would only be used as a storage unit and place for gardening tools rather than a garage. :look:

:hey2:



Well prove him wrong show us what you really are using it for...

[HSURB]

Post up.

HSURB®

[Tommy Gun]

:hey2:



Well prove him wrong show us what you really are using it for...


Why is Highwayman editing your posts? :giggle:

[Joe G]

:ban:

[Tommy Gun]

Should I ban the Pittsburg IP or the Tampa? :look:

[Highwayman]

Should I ban the Pittsburg IP or the Tampa? :look:

Not if you are going to spell da burgh that way

[Tommy Gun]

Pitzbug



:sofa:

[Joe G]

Can't do that with the design of our house and the lot. It should kind of face the main garage. See this simple sketch of the potential layout of the house/attached garage, detached garage and driveway.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/House-garagesketch.jpg



Layout and positioning of barn changed a little due to the lot, but here's a few exterior pics. Steel sides, regular asphalt shingled roof.


http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/755CE089-2297-4E1C-8FF4-2C551F067855_zpsmj5w2lsr.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/755CE089-2297-4E1C-8FF4-2C551F067855_zpsmj5w2lsr.jpg.html)

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/Plates/C1EC705A-5C9E-41DD-B0D2-03699A491E93_zps45kp5imw.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/Plates/C1EC705A-5C9E-41DD-B0D2-03699A491E93_zps45kp5imw.jpg.html)

[Joe G]

Proposed order of work to be done inside:
- insulate walls (material, style TBD)
- rough in electric service
- finish walls (decide on what I'm going to use)
- run electric
- insulate ceiling

Will post interior pics tonight.

[68fastback]

Proposed order of work to be done inside:
4b - insulate walls (material, style TBD)
2 - rough in electric service
1 - stud any interior walls
3 - run electric
4a - insulate ceiling
5 - finish walls (decide on what surfaces)

Will post interior pics tonight.

Joe, I like how detached garage location wound up even better than original plan ...flows better with less driveway pad required for maneuvering.

Joe, what about above sequence -- might be better?

[onecrazydog]

I want that...

[The Bone]

Hey Joe. That cover i got for my Taurus would be nice for your GT500. It keeps a lot of the dust off the car. You wouldnt have to attach it to r=the floor since it would be inside. yould wouldnt believe how much dust comes in my garage. My GT500 gets dusty

[Joe G]

Joe, what about above sequence -- might be better?

I forgot to add your #1 - will add, but let me explain my reasoning....


Proposed order of work to be done inside:
2 - insulate walls (material, style TBD) - besides electric, this is my #1 goal this summer. See #4 as to why it's #2.
1 - rough in electric service - good change - I'm just pulling the cable from the house through the pre-buried pipe underground to the barn which comes up inside the barn near a side wall. I'll mount the 100a service on one of the side walls and insulate around it.
3 - stud any interior walls - forgot about this. Will only rough in a bathroom (incoming water and toilet drain already in place) to finish later.
4 - run electric - I'm surface mounting the electric in EMT conduit vs. cutting through all the 4x4 posts and running romex behind the walls. Like the look, hate the thought of having the wiring behind the wall in case of an issue later, and like the ability to add/modify later.
6 - insulate ceiling - may not do this right now, so putting it off until last
5 - finish walls (decide on what surfaces)

[Joe G]

Hey Joe. That cover i got for my Taurus would be nice for your GT500. It keeps a lot of the dust off the car. You wouldnt have to attach it to r=the floor since it would be inside. yould wouldnt believe how much dust comes in my garage. My GT500 gets dusty

Have the factory cover for the Shelby. :wtg:

[Tommy Gun]

Have the factory cover for the Shelby. :wtg:


Not worn out by now?

[Joe G]

First and biggest decision - insulation type.


Before we go into that, lets look at the wall construction (ignore the mess - most pics are from last year before it was organized better).


http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/409C0365-B952-48D0-9F5C-DE5B218A1D16_zpsjuwsltwo.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/409C0365-B952-48D0-9F5C-DE5B218A1D16_zpsjuwsltwo.jpg.html)

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/3A1367CE-64C0-4B92-9C29-1BB6AA272FB7_zpsswkwj9bp.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/3A1367CE-64C0-4B92-9C29-1BB6AA272FB7_zpsswkwj9bp.jpg.html)

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/A4D3A5C1-FBA3-4530-85B4-F2193A1004B9_zpsjmq6wur3.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/A4D3A5C1-FBA3-4530-85B4-F2193A1004B9_zpsjmq6wur3.jpg.html)

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/FD90C641-83D7-43A4-B8C9-B9165BC30790_zpsg3ue83n8.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/FD90C641-83D7-43A4-B8C9-B9165BC30790_zpsg3ue83n8.jpg.html)

[Joe G]

Will be installing rafter baffles (or whatever they're called) so that there's airflow after I install insulation on the walls.



http://f.tqn.com/y/homerepair/1/S/x/F/-/-/accuvent-montage.png


http://www.tmnbuilders.com/wp-content/uploads/Insulation-11.png



Since most of the posts are +/- 8' on center, do I need to run the baffles all the way across the top?

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/3ba008cb-3eeb-4abc-9cee-236e953e382f_zpssyga14ay.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/3ba008cb-3eeb-4abc-9cee-236e953e382f_zpssyga14ay.jpg.html)

[Joe G]

Ceiling will be mounted to the bottom of the roof trusses, but again that'll be one of the last things done.

[68fastback]

I forgot to add your #1 - will add, but let me explain my reasoning....


Proposed order of work to be done inside:
2 - insulate walls (material, style TBD) - besides electric, this is my #1 goal this summer. See #4 as to why it's #2.
1 - rough in electric service - good change - I'm just pulling the cable from the house through the pre-buried pipe underground to the barn which comes up inside the barn near a side wall. I'll mount the 100a service on one of the side walls and insulate around it.
3 - stud any interior walls - forgot about this. Will only rough in a bathroom (incoming water and toilet drain already in place) to finish later.
4 - run electric - I'm surface mounting the electric in EMT conduit vs. cutting through all the 4x4 posts and running romex behind the walls. Like the look, hate the thought of having the wiring behind the wall in case of an issue later, and like the ability to add/modify later.
6 - insulate ceiling - may not do this right now, so putting it off until last
5 - finish walls (decide on what surfaces)

Ah! Makes sense with surface mount electric, etc. I figured there must be a reason :wtg:

[onecrazydog]

Will be installing rafter baffles (or whatever they're called) so that there's airflow after I install insulation on the walls.




Since most of the posts are +/- 8' on center, do I need to run the baffles all the way across the top?




I have those in my garage!! They work great...



Yes...

[onecrazydog]

Your shop is so awesome!!

[Joe G]

Would prefer spray foam for the wall insulation as love it in the house, and that it seals it up and you don't need to worry about moisture, but don't think it's worth the cost considering I won't be spending huge hours in it. As long as it's decently insulated I think it'll be fine - I won't be keeping it @ 60* in the winter or 70* in the summer.

So... that leads me to batt type insulation.

Now, one of the mistakes I made was not having the builder put Tyvek around the outside before installing the steel siding. That means there's no moisture barrier so I need to watch that. This will be the 3rd summer, and haven't had ANY leaks or water inside - anywhere. Corners, roof etc have had no leaks even after heavy rain, heavy snow, or snow melt. I'm pretty comfortable that water won't be coming through the walls or down from the roof.

However, not sure that I want just bare or kraft faced fiberglass against the walls. That leads me to think about an encapsulated product - see pics below.


http://www.steelbuildinginsulation.com/insulationpolebldgs.pdf


http://www.steelbuildinginsulation.com/polebuilding.html

[Joe G]

I have those in my garage!! They work great...


Yes...

:tiphat: Glad I was on the right track.

[Joe G]

Your shop is so awesome!!

:webers: That means a lot coming from you. :canada:

[68fastback]

Will be installing rafter baffles (or whatever they're called) so that there's airflow after I install insulation on the walls.



http://f.tqn.com/y/homerepair/1/S/x/F/-/-/accuvent-montage.png


http://www.tmnbuilders.com/wp-content/uploads/Insulation-11.png



Since most of the posts are +/- 8' on center, do I need to run the baffles all the way across the top?

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/3ba008cb-3eeb-4abc-9cee-236e953e382f_zpssyga14ay.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/3ba008cb-3eeb-4abc-9cee-236e953e382f_zpssyga14ay.jpg.html)

Those baffles are designed for use with insulated attics (ceiling over living space) to permit soffit venting to get past the insulation and to the open space of the attic and eventually to vent out through an attic ridge vent and/or gable-end vents.

If you were to use fiberglass with those they would have to extend all the way to a ridge vent. Is there an existing ridge vent?

Alternatively, you could use 2" rigid foam under the rafters and then you don't need those baffles at all. You might even be able to find 2" tongue-in-groove rigid foam with a radiant barrier on one side and a finished (interior) surface on other side so it's a one step operation -- installed across (under) rafters ...the tongue-in-groove makes the whole thing much less prone to sag. Still, 8' is a long span so might need a mid-attachment point in between depending on the material, but this may well be the the most effective and least effort.

Another alternative is something like this (http://www.insulation4less.com/Insulation4lessProduct-1-Prodex-Total-48-Inch.aspx)which has the benefit of reflective barriers on both sides (and would still let the soffit's vent over it) but you'd still need someting rigid underneath it to hold it up -- two step process with is more than twice the effort of a one step since you have to tack it in place just to be able to cover it anyway -- also, unlikely a finish material would span 8' without sag and more intermediate attachment points likely required.

Chicken and turkey farmers love pole barns b/c they're sturdy and cheap to construct. They often just stretch specialized 1/4" bubble wrap (with reflective on both surfaces) under the rafters. A little funky but by far the cheapest with a very good overall effective insulation (mostly radiant with a little R). Not necesarily what you'd want, just pointing out the benefit.

[Tommy Gun]

I'd just buy a nice heater for the colder months and a good fan for circulation in the summer (or AC) since you won't be in there much. :look:

[Alloy Dave]

I forgot to add your #1 - will add, but let me explain my reasoning....


Proposed order of work to be done inside:
2 - insulate walls (material, style TBD) - besides electric, this is my #1 goal this summer. See #4 as to why it's #2.
1 - rough in electric service - good change - I'm just pulling the cable from the house through the pre-buried pipe underground to the barn which comes up inside the barn near a side wall. I'll mount the 100a service on one of the side walls and insulate around it.
3 - stud any interior walls - forgot about this. Will only rough in a bathroom (incoming water and toilet drain already in place) to finish later.
4 - run electric - I'm surface mounting the electric in EMT conduit vs. cutting through all the 4x4 posts and running romex behind the walls. Like the look, hate the thought of having the wiring behind the wall in case of an issue later, and like the ability to add/modify later.
6 - insulate ceiling - may not do this right now, so putting it off until last
5 - finish walls (decide on what surfaces)

What is the ceiling made of? Are you talking about putting insulation directly against the ceiling panels? If so, be careful, the hot/cold may cause condensation and trap mildew between the insulation and the roof...I've seen it a few times on pole barns where they insulate the metal roof.

[Alloy Dave]

Will be installing rafter baffles (or whatever they're called) so that there's airflow after I install insulation on the walls.



http://f.tqn.com/y/homerepair/1/S/x/F/-/-/accuvent-montage.png


http://www.tmnbuilders.com/wp-content/uploads/Insulation-11.png



Since most of the posts are +/- 8' on center, do I need to run the baffles all the way across the top?

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/3ba008cb-3eeb-4abc-9cee-236e953e382f_zpssyga14ay.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/3ba008cb-3eeb-4abc-9cee-236e953e382f_zpssyga14ay.jpg.html)
No you don't. There is a calculation somewhere you can run...but it's pretty complex...I typically see in a house about every 3rd rafter has a vent...and with that setup I rarely see any ventilation problems. If you're worried...do every 3rd one and throw a few extra in.

[Alloy Dave]

Those baffles are designed for use with insulated attics (ceiling over living space) to permit soffit venting to get past the insulation and to the open space of the attic and eventually to vent out through an attic ridge vent and/or gable-end vents.

If you were to use fiberglass with those they would have to extend all the way to a ridge vent. Is there an existing ridge vent?

Alternatively, you could use 2" rigid foam under the rafters and then you don't need those baffles at all. You might even be able to find 2" tongue-in-groove rigid foam with a radiant barrier on one side and a finished (interior) surface on other side so it's a one step operation -- installed across (under) rafters ...the tongue-in-groove makes the whole thing much less prone to sag. Still, 8' is a long span so might need a mid-attachment point in between depending on the material, but this may well be the the most effective and least effort.

Another alternative is something like this (http://www.insulation4less.com/Insulation4lessProduct-1-Prodex-Total-48-Inch.aspx)which has the benefit of reflective barriers on both sides (and would still let the soffit's vent over it) but you'd still need someting rigid underneath it to hold it up -- two step process with is more than twice the effort of a one step since you have to tack it in place just to be able to cover it anyway -- also, unlikely a finish material would span 8' without sag and more intermediate attachment points likely required.

Chicken and turkey farmers love pole barns b/c they're sturdy and cheap to construct. They often just stretch specialized 1/4" bubble wrap (with reflective on both surfaces) under the rafters. A little funky but by far the cheapest with a very good overall effective insulation (mostly radiant with a little R). Not necesarily what you'd want, just pointing out the benefit.
This is what I was alluding to in my earlier post...what is your "top side" ventilation going to be? You need a way for air to get out of the garage. Do you have soffit vents? Take a photo of the underside of the eaves and show us. Ridge vents, roof vents are the two common choices. Is the roof metal?

Edit: I see the roof is waferboard/OSB....is it shingled outside?

[Tommy Gun]

This is what I was alluding to in my earlier post...what is your "top side" ventilation going to be? You need a way for air to get out of the garage. Do you have soffit vents? Take a photo of the underside of the eaves and show us. Ridge vents, roof vents are the two common choices. Is the roof metal?

Edit: I see the roof is waferboard/OSB....is it shingled outside?


Look back :haha:

[Joe G]

Shingled roof

Ceiling will be across the bottom of the rafters - just like in a normal house. Will then blow in or lay batts down and have a open air space above.

Yes, have vents on the side soffits and a ridge vent on top. That's why I was thinking I'd need to use those baffles.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/FD90C641-83D7-43A4-B8C9-B9165BC30790_zpsg3ue83n8.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/FD90C641-83D7-43A4-B8C9-B9165BC30790_zpsg3ue83n8.jpg.html)

[onecrazydog]

Use blown in for the ceiling, cheaper and better than batts...

These are the baffles you need,

http://stangsunited.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16035&stc=1

http://stangsunited.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16036&stc=1

[Joe G]

Use blown in for the ceiling, cheaper and better than batts...

These are the baffles you need,

http://stangsunited.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16035&stc=1

http://stangsunited.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16036&stc=1

Is that just cardboard stapled to the sides??

[68fastback]

Shingled roof

Ceiling will be across the bottom of the rafters - just like in a normal house. Will then blow in or lay batts down and have a open air space above.

Yes, have vents on the side soffits and a ridge vent on top. That's why I was thinking I'd need to use those baffles.



Cool -- then you only need the baffles reaching up high enough to the top of the insulation fill.
If you use a ceiling sheathing with an integral vapor barrier (on the upper side) then blown-in fiberglass or rock wool) would probably be simplest -- won't have to deal with a separate vapor barrier. Modular homes spray a vapor barrier on the ceiling sheathing before it's installed.

[68fastback]

Just saw Stacey's post ...right on!

[Carnut]

Since you are not going to be in the barn all the time, I would suggest you pay careful attention to not creating little homes for mice and other rodents. They are good at getting in through roll up doors etc. Creating false walls might not be what you want to do. Just sayin and I know a few things about rodents.

[onecrazydog]

Is that just cardboard stapled to the sides??

Yup, put them in my garage too... They are cheap to buy... Good ones have a wax coating on them... Home depot sells them...

[Tommy Gun]

Why is the garage so high, do you plan a second floor or lofts?

[Joe G]

Why is the garage so high, do you plan a second floor or lofts?

I have a loft along the back right side - 12' wide and I think 24' deep. Future beer room/man cave. :beerchug:

[Joe G]

Yup, put them in my garage too... They are cheap to buy... Good ones have a wax coating on them... Home depot sells them...

So, with Davey saying I don't need them across the entire left and right side (where the soffit vents are), I can just do it like every other section? Most are ~ 7'6" wide - wonder if they have them that wide?

[Tommy Gun]

I have a loft along the back right side - 12' wide and I think 24' deep. Future beer room/man cave. :beerchug:

Nice to have dreams :wtg:


I should have had a nice garage when I was 25, but could never afford one on my pay.

Kinda gave up on that when I was about 40. Wasn't really worth it to me after that as I was already losing interest on working any big projects. :grin:

[Joe G]

Nice to have dreams :wtg:


I should have had a nice garage when I was 25, but could never afford one on my pay.

Kinda gave up on that when I was about 40. Wasn't really worth it to me after that as I was already losing interest on working any big projects. :grin:

Thanks for killing my dream. :kickrock:

[Tommy Gun]

Thanks for killing my dream. :kickrock:


No, more power to you. If you can afford it go for it, look at OCD. :)

[Joe G]

If you can afford it go for it, look at OCD. :)

I'm not rich like him!! :rant:

[onecrazydog]

So, with Davey saying I don't need them across the entire left and right side (where the soffit vents are), I can just do it like every other section? Most are ~ 7'6" wide - wonder if they have them that wide?

You might have to make your own... They should go where the vents are for sure...

[onecrazydog]

look at OCD. :)



:wasntme:

[Tommy Gun]

I'm not rich like him!! :rant:


Free food and never have to maintain your vehicles doubles your income compared to us. :rolleyes:

[The Bone]

I think you are over thinking this to much. Just leave the rafters alone and when you put in the insulation just blow it in. The eve vents will let air in and out. No need to worry about leaving a space. Just dont spray over the vent.

[68fastback]

That's how many modular home (actually all the ones I've seen) are done -- including ours ...they start blowing in at the eve so they have good spray control and then work away from it -- watched at a factory tour here in NY. Amazing that they don't get any (or much anyway -lol) into the soffit -- practice makes perfect. For a homeowner doing the job the baffles might prevent a lot of 'oops' tho.

[Tommy Gun]

Homeowner doing it? Can you really see Joe up there? :haha:





:tiptoe:

[Joe G]

You sonofa.... :furious:

[Tommy Gun]

:sneaking:

[68fastback]

:lol:

[Alloy Dave]

So, with Davey saying I don't need them across the entire left and right side (where the soffit vents are), I can just do it like every other section? Most are ~ 7'6" wide - wonder if they have them that wide??? What is 7'6" wide? There's no way your rafter spacing is that wide. And I assume you have continuous soffit venting? Most rafter spacing is 16" OC, although I do see 24" OC sometimes also, especially if trusses are used.

[Alloy Dave]

Use blown in for the ceiling, cheaper and better than batts...

These are the baffles you need,

http://stangsunited.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16035&stc=1

http://stangsunited.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16036&stc=1
Two most common types of blown in are fiberglass and cellulose. Each has advantages, and overall IMO they are equal. Cellulose has higher insulation value per inch, but costs more per cubic foot. Fiberglass is easier if you install yourself...don't need much in the way of PPE compared to cellulose...which is a real mess to install yourself. I use loose fiberglass in our rentals, but I have no major complaints about either one. Just don't use vermiculite. :look:

[Alloy Dave]

You might have to make your own... They should go where the vents are for sure...That's why I asked if he had continuous soffit vents.

[Tommy Gun]

Two most common types of blown in are fiberglass and cellulose. Each has advantages, and overall IMO they are equal. Cellulose has higher insulation value per inch, but costs more per cubic foot. Fiberglass is easier if you install yourself...don't need much in the way of PPE compared to cellulose...which is a real mess to install yourself. I use loose fiberglass in our rentals, but I have no major complaints about either one. Just don't use vermiculite. :look:


Sharun has cellulose, just sayin'...

[Joe G]

And I assume you have continuous soffit venting?

Yes

[Joe G]

?? What is 7'6" wide? There's no way your rafter spacing is that wide. Most rafter spacing is 16" OC, although I do see 24" OC sometimes also, especially if trusses are used.

Not in a pole barn. I'll take some pics of the ceiling tonight.




http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/A4D3A5C1-FBA3-4530-85B4-F2193A1004B9_zpsjmq6wur3.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/A4D3A5C1-FBA3-4530-85B4-F2193A1004B9_zpsjmq6wur3.jpg.html)

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/3A1367CE-64C0-4B92-9C29-1BB6AA272FB7_zpsswkwj9bp.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/3A1367CE-64C0-4B92-9C29-1BB6AA272FB7_zpsswkwj9bp.jpg.html)

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/FD90C641-83D7-43A4-B8C9-B9165BC30790_zpsg3ue83n8.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/FD90C641-83D7-43A4-B8C9-B9165BC30790_zpsg3ue83n8.jpg.html)

[Carnut]

Are those 2x4 spanning between the truss purlins?

[Alloy Dave]

Ok Joe, I see what you mean now...I doubt they make rafter vents that wide...you may have to custom fabricate from large pieces of cardboard or perhaps you could use rigid polystyrene boards...they are 8' long, you can cut them with a serrated knife (large serrations, like a bread knife), and since they are 4' wide you could get 2 or 3 of them out of each board...so you'd have a 7'6" x 2' board, then skip one, then do another one, etc. You'll just need a way to "secure" them, such as maybe make them 1/2" wider and "friction fit" them or screw/nail little pieces of 1x2 on the bottom of the framing members for them to lay on or toenail through the foam into the framing members or so on. If you have insulation less deep, instead of 7'6" x 2' you could make them 7'6" x 1.33' and get three pieces out of each rigid foam board. Just an idea...there's probably 6 different ways to do this effectively.

https://www.insulation4us.com/pactiv-2-in-x-8-ft-x-4-ft-extruded-polystyrene-insulated-sheet-r10.html?gclid=CNjFvfOQ1ssCFdgSgQod_-oNkA

[Tommy Gun]

Are those 2x4 spanning between the truss purlins?


Wow, I haven't heard the term purlin in over 25 years. Lol

[Carnut]

Wow, I haven't heard the term purlin in over 25 years. Lol

The construction of Joe's garage looks to be a panelized roof hybrid, making the term truss purlin correct in this application.

[The Bone]

The nut be old school. I be old school too.:rofl:

[Joe G]

The construction of Joe's garage looks to be a panelized roof hybrid, making the term truss purlin correct in this application.

:but: I have no idea what you're talking about!

[Carnut]

You're not supposed to, it is old school code and you don't know either the secret word or the handshake.

[Joe G]

You're not supposed to, it is old school code and you don't know either the secret word or the handshake.

:banghead:

[68fastback]

Are those 2x4 spanning between the truss purlins?

...are they 2x4s? ...what's the 'vertical' spacing ...24"?

[Tommy Gun]

I'm guessing all the spacing questions because by the pics it doesn't look very strong. Spacing looks excessive from what I've seen before unless it's an illusion and the wood size is larger than it looks and the spacing is tighter than it seems?

[Carnut]

I was asking in order to make an intelligent comment. If those are 2x4's spaced at 24 inches and spanning 8 feet, they are at the limit for deflection. What that means is you don't want to put a hard lid on it like drywall because it will crack because the 2x4's will bend too much over time and if a live load is added such as from snow. If they are 2x6's you might be able to depending upon the species of wood and the snow load in your area. If you have 2x4's I would suggest using Kraft faced fiberglass batts held in place by galvanized wires supporting the batts and spaced at 24 inches and stapled to bottom side of the 2x4.

[68fastback]

I'm guessing all the spacing questions because by the pics it doesn't look very strong. Spacing looks excessive from what I've seen before unless it's an illusion and the wood size is larger than it looks and the spacing is tighter than it seems?


The upside of purlins is that they are typically shorter spans so smaller dimensional lumber can be used. The downside (if there is one) is there's an extra level of dependence (widely spaced rafters) so there's an additional potential point of failure (those rafters that support many purlins). In conventional construction with rafters running from top plate to ridge, the rafters are generally longer so must be larger/stronger but, if one rafter fails, it's not typically catastrophic. Since purlins sit on rafters that in turn sit on top-plate and ridge (the extra level of dependence), if a rafter fails it takes out a large section of the roof. So purlin construction is a typically more efficient use of materials (which is why it was used when lumber was hand-cut, etc) it can look weaker but, sized right, is just as strong.

That's why I was asking about the purlin size. I used 7' 2x4 rafters 16" OC on a 9x12 storage building I built in the 80s and it survived 35" of snow with no problem. If the span was 12' fuggetaboutit -lol

[edit:] oops I see Carnut already responded while I was typing :wtg:

[Joe G]

Wasn't able to get better/more pics after work. Probably won't be home until late tomorrow too. Will get them and size of lumber used too.

[Joe G]

This is the back-right corner of the garage (as you're pulling in from the front). 24' deep by 12' wide (garage is 48' deep x 36' wide).

Bathroom would be in the back corner under the loft - water and sewer line already roughed in.

Electric service also comes in under the loft so that's where I'll mount the sub-panel.



http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/A2AC113E-B1D8-4543-A3BA-3118106C014C_zps9yzntyry.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/A2AC113E-B1D8-4543-A3BA-3118106C014C_zps9yzntyry.jpg.html)

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/F4CD8513-A26A-4D1E-A982-712EA1780183_zps6lm4qkq3.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/F4CD8513-A26A-4D1E-A982-712EA1780183_zps6lm4qkq3.jpg.html)

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/F0946578-7228-4267-B0B4-243383C8E494_zps97ypqhfv.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/F0946578-7228-4267-B0B4-243383C8E494_zps97ypqhfv.jpg.html)

[Joe G]

More/better pics of the roof trusses or whatever they're called.

You can see the ridge vent in the middle.



http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/DE9B4497-AADE-4BB6-9959-C195365DAE86_zpsfvk50ra8.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/DE9B4497-AADE-4BB6-9959-C195365DAE86_zpsfvk50ra8.jpg.html)

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/B7D21A0B-417B-4947-9139-3C4D8EE0D3E3_zps1k0nqogo.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/B7D21A0B-417B-4947-9139-3C4D8EE0D3E3_zps1k0nqogo.jpg.html)

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/291A3B39-25D2-4724-88B3-4806E0CA6F42_zpsfsyhz78u.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/291A3B39-25D2-4724-88B3-4806E0CA6F42_zpsfsyhz78u.jpg.html)

[Joe G]

More... does this help?



http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/C03D8F02-891D-4ADF-891B-C2219A1BF8AF_zpswu5ptpdx.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/C03D8F02-891D-4ADF-891B-C2219A1BF8AF_zpswu5ptpdx.jpg.html)

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc289/JoeG_09/New%20house/7876387C-B065-4ECE-AB1B-AA77E836228F_zpssbdcgops.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/JoeG_09/media/New%20house/7876387C-B065-4ECE-AB1B-AA77E836228F_zpssbdcgops.jpg.html)

[Carnut]

Kind of unusual construction. Surprised there is no solid blocking between the 2x4 joists to keep them from rolling over and/or transferring the shear to the walls. I guess this was engineered and plans followed.

[Shelby-Don]

That does look a little different, or barns have the 2x4 nailers on top of the trusses laying down rather than standing up

[68fastback]

Maybe the roof slope angle is less than the diagonal of the cross-section of the purlins such that it doesn't want to roll? ...hard to tell. Still, surprised the lower most purlin-pairs aren't blocked anyway like Carnut mentioned. VERY efficient use of materials tho.

[The Bone]

Notice how the 2x4's are on top of the purlin's. So the sheeting is nailed directly to the 2x4"s. I bet that was a interesting roof to put sheeting on. I don't see any hangers on the 2x4's ether.
Time to build some shelves in there Joe. :)

[Joe G]

Yes, there were plans on this. Approved by the local inspector.

I looked at probably 8-10 other pole barns before building ours (3 different builders IIRC), and all were pretty much built the same.

It will be 3 years in July and we've had some nasty storms, heavy winds and heavy snowfalls. No leaks anywhere and the couple times (first year) that I went inside during one of the heavy storms (I wanted to check it out "just in case") it was very solid - didn't hear any creaks, groans, cracks etc. Hoping it stays this way, but open to suggestions on things to check or improve before I begin finishing the inside.

I purposely waited a few seasons to start the finishing - mainly to make sure there were no issues/leaks (also to save up $$ to afford it :giggle::spend:). If I need to do something, now is the time. :waiting:

[Joe G]

Time to build some shelves in there Joe. :)

There will be for sure. Didn't want to do anything until the insulation and walls were finished.

[68fastback]

Notice how the 2x4's are on top of the purlin's. So the sheeting is nailed directly to the 2x4"s. I bet that was a interesting roof to put sheeting on. I don't see any hangers on the 2x4's ether.
Time to build some shelves in there Joe. :)


Yes, there were plans on this. Approved by the local inspector.

I looked at probably 8-10 other pole barns before building ours (3 different builders IIRC), and all were pretty much built the same.

It will be 3 years in July and we've had some nasty storms, heavy winds and heavy snowfalls. No leaks anywhere and the couple times (first year) that I went inside during one of the heavy storms (I wanted to check it out "just in case") it was very solid - didn't hear any creaks, groans, cracks etc. Hoping it stays this way, but open to suggestions on things to check or improve before I begin finishing the inside.

I purposely waited a few seasons to start the finishing - mainly to make sure there were no issues/leaks (also to save up $$ to afford it :giggle::spend:). If I need to do something, now is the time. :waiting:

Those 2x4s (or whatever size) are the purlins. Purlins have been constructed on top of the main rafters (vs between) for hundreds of years so that's not unusual. However they were also traditionally either 'flatted' or slightly notched where they mount to the rafter (to address Carnut's concern). I suspect that a plumb line hung from one of those purlins would not fall further from the bottom edge than the width of the purlin -- meaning the slope of the roof is less than the [smaller] diagonal angle of the purlin cross-section -- i.e. meaning it won't actually want to 'roll' ...but I bet the angles are VERY close.

The whole roof was probably computer modeled since those trusses were most likely made to spec -- specifically for your application, Joe. All those cross-rafter braces running across the rafter trusses and attached to the king posts and mid-struts (just above and across the bottom chord or the trusses) are almost certainly taken right off the computer generated plan -- they are critical to the load rating because they prevent that bottom chord from buckling sideways under certain loads.

Our garage doesn't have purlins but has similar rafter trusses and ties that were mandated based on the computer model the truss-manufacturer ran for our garage (including some at odd angles I also see in yours, Joe) so I suspect yours was done similarly given what I'm seeing. No way to know for sure just by looking but that's my hunch. Also, those "H" clips on all the roof sheeting butt-seams are critical -- they assure the roof will act as a unit vs as individual panels.

It's probably a lot stronger than it looks!

[Joe G]

It's probably a lot stronger than it looks.

Whew!!

[The Bone]

i like it. i was just noticing it not knocking it. I am sure this building has been engineered not to fail.

[Alloy Dave]

Kind of unusual construction. Surprised there is no solid blocking between the 2x4 joists to keep them from rolling over and/or transferring the shear to the walls. I guess this was engineered and plans followed.
Trusses require both horizontal and diagonal bracing to prevent just what you are talking about. I can see both types in the photo, at the center of the truss.

[Alloy Dave]

Also, keep in mind, that you cannot modify/cut/alter a truss without permission from a structural engineer. And even if they approve an alteration, they must print out a change form and that document must be attached to the truss so that anyone looking at it later knows the alteration was approved.

[Carnut]

:urkidding:

[68fastback]

:giggle:

[Joe G]

Also, keep in mind, that you cannot modify/cut/alter a truss without permission from a structural engineer. And even if they approve an alteration, they must print out a change form and that document must be attached to the truss so that anyone looking at it later knows the alteration was approved.

I wouldn't cut anything... just wondering if additional braces, supports or fasteners would be recommended.

[68fastback]

I wouldn't cut anything... just wondering if additional braces, supports or fasteners would be recommended.

You could add perlin-to-rafter Simpson (or equivalent) ties to prevent lift-off in very high winds. Then again, there's a lot of perlins there and each one needs two (and a very long ladder). Maybe a good insurance policy is easier/better since winds that high may just collapse the side-wall panels first and then nothing is going to keep the roof on b/c the sheeting will just lift off the perlins since it's likely nailed, not screwed.

---

We don't have perlins (sheeting nailed to rafters) but I did install rafter-to-top-plate ties in the garage (now required) on every truss, and perimeter-joist to foundation-plate ties on the house (it has rafter to top-plate ties as built), the purpose being to stop the perimeter joist (and therefore whole house) from shifting on the foundation plate in high winds since even a small shift makes the house legally uninhabitable by code (even if it doesn't collapse into the basement -lol) and there's really no way to economically right it. I also installed Simpson flat ties connecting every other floor joist from A-unit to B-unit sides (modular) since a shift of either also makes the house legally uninhabitable. I thought it comical that those ties were not required yet local code requires that the lally colums be fastened to the joists and to the basement slab so that if the house lifts (even only very slightly) in high winds, the columns won't just fall over and then the house would collapse into the basement -- not good -- but there was no requirement (in 1999) to stop it from lifting/shifting on the sill plate in the first place -doh! Hopefully it will NEVER matter, but it's seems crazy that it's legally ok (back then) to just sit a modular on the foundation plate and shoot a nail in every few feet (if at all) -- I just couldn't sleep at night in a storm with that :nonono: -lol. We've had two hurricanes with +/- 95 mph winds that devastated the area several years ago and house hung tight. Some others in the area not so lucky.

[Tommy Gun]

I take it the purlins are 2x4s spanning 8 feet?

Seems over time that would sag between the trusses?

I've seen 2x6 sag at 10 feet, so would think 2x4 at 8 feet even more.

[Carnut]

My previous comments were a casual observation.

Given that the building was engineered correctly and plans were followed (per Joe's comment), it is fine. There are different ways to provide a lateral force resisting structure and without doing a complete structural analysis, we are all speculating what method the engineer took. It is obvious that he is not using a typical plywood diaphragm method, so it must be relying on reinforcing the hinge connection of the posts to the truss purlin and using the diagonal brace there to make it more of a rigid frame in that direction. In the opposite direction it appears he used additional diagonal braces to make the end span transfer the lateral to the roof, sort of a horizontal rigid frame that carries down to the end walls that are diagonally braced.

There is nothing wrong with this approach if properly executed. You just don't want to add openings in the corners without analyzing what members form the lateral force resisting system. How he is resisting the uplift force on the roof isn't obvious to me, perhaps I am not seeing something and maybe just the deadload of the joists and plywood is adequate to conform with code.

Now we can get back to how to insulate this thing. :haha:

[Joe G]

Thanks all... though I still have no idea what Danny and Carnut are saying. :rofl:

[Joe G]

Now we can get back to how to insulate this thing. :haha:

:goodpost:


Called 2 places to check on spray foam insulation (doing just walls for now - would blow in the ceiling when that's done later).

For minimum 2" of closed cell - one was $4700 one was almost $4900.

One guy also quoted 4" of open cell for $4300.

The main posts are triple 2x6's, so I have 5-1/2" deep - everything I've read says 2-3" of closed cell is more than enough. I can also add fiberglass bat insulation on top of that if I'm serious about it.

Remember - 36' wide x 48' deep x 16' walls. 1 man door, 3x windows (3x4'). One single garage door (10' x 8') and one double (18' x 10').

I'm hoping to price out the wide FG bats soon to see what the price difference is... but every forum I've checked says if you can afford spray foam that it's worth it as it creates a great barrier against leaks (water & air), cuts outside sound, and really ties it together.


Thoughts?

[onecrazydog]

Spray foam if you can afford it... Less labor than putting in batts and vapor barrier, and way more efficient...

[Carnut]

:goodpost:


Called 2 places to check on spray foam insulation (doing just walls for now - would blow in the ceiling when that's done later).

For minimum 2" of closed cell - one was $4700 one was almost $4900.

One guy also quoted 4" of open cell for $4300.

The main posts are triple 2x6's, so I have 5-1/2" deep - everything I've read says 2-3" of closed cell is more than enough. I can also add fiberglass bat insulation on top of that if I'm serious about it.

Remember - 36' wide x 48' deep x 16' walls. 1 man door, 3x windows (3x4'). One single garage door (10' x 8') and one double (18' x 10').

I'm hoping to price out the wide FG bats soon to see what the price difference is... but every forum I've checked says if you can afford spray foam that it's worth it as it creates a great barrier against leaks (water & air), cuts outside sound, and really ties it together.


Thoughts?

I think most spray foam is combustible without a fire resistant coating. Fiberglass batts are not and you can get a FR facing if you use it. You probably aren't going to be out there but a few days a week so insulative value may not be that important if you don't condition the air in those days you are not. Just my 2 cents.

Vermin will chew threw either of the products.

[Alloy Dave]

:goodpost:


Called 2 places to check on spray foam insulation (doing just walls for now - would blow in the ceiling when that's done later).

For minimum 2" of closed cell - one was $4700 one was almost $4900.

One guy also quoted 4" of open cell for $4300.

The main posts are triple 2x6's, so I have 5-1/2" deep - everything I've read says 2-3" of closed cell is more than enough. I can also add fiberglass bat insulation on top of that if I'm serious about it.

Remember - 36' wide x 48' deep x 16' walls. 1 man door, 3x windows (3x4'). One single garage door (10' x 8') and one double (18' x 10').

I'm hoping to price out the wide FG bats soon to see what the price difference is... but every forum I've checked says if you can afford spray foam that it's worth it as it creates a great barrier against leaks (water & air), cuts outside sound, and really ties it together.


Thoughts?My only comment is that once you put spray foam on, anything under it (such as wiring etc.) is very difficult to get to...so you better make sure it's right. Or put the wiring in a "chase" and foam around it somehow.

[Joe G]

My only comment is that once you put spray foam on, anything under it (such as wiring etc.) is very difficult to get to...so you better make sure it's right. Or put the wiring in a "chase" and foam around it somehow.

Thanks, but since you don't read back :giggle: I'm going to surface mount the outlets using conduit (likely EMT) - just for the reason you point out. Want to be able to fix/modify/add if I need and it will be easy my way. Plus, I kinda like the look of it.



http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20151224/112edb5062bedf9b915112145c720bc1.jpg

[Joe G]

I think most spray foam is combustible without a fire resistant coating. Fiberglass batts are not and you can get a FR facing if you use it. You probably aren't going to be out there but a few days a week so insulative value may not be that important if you don't condition the air in those days you are not. Just my 2 cents.


Yes, I'd cover the wall with something with either insulation.


And yes, I realize I don't need to aim for a super high R value but as with everything I don't want to regret not doing it "right" the first time. Mrs G talks about using part of it for family parties some day so would want it to at least hold some heat in the winter/not get blazing hot in the summer. It won't be the pig sty it is forever. :lol:

[Joe G]

Vermin will chew threw either of the products.

Bastids!!!

:gun:

[Tommy Gun]

Thanks, but since you don't read back :giggle: I'm going to surface mount the outlets using conduit (likely EMT) - just for the reason you point out. Want to be able to fix/modify/add if I need and it will be easy my way. Plus, I kinda like the look of it.



http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20151224/112edb5062bedf9b915112145c720bc1.jpg


I'll believe it when I see it, I think you will get old and lazy like the rest of us first.

:challenge:

[onecrazydog]

I'll believe it when I see it, I think you will get old and lazy like the rest of us first.

:challenge:




Rest of us? I think it's just you, moody old fart...

[Carnut]

http://products.lwsupply.com/content/lwsupply/products/insulation/mineral_wool/thermafiber_safb.html

[Tommy Gun]

Rest of us? I think it's just you, moody old fart...

I knew I should have put one exception in there...


.

[Joe G]

I'll believe it when I see it, I think you will get old and lazy like the rest of us first.

:challenge:

:hey2:

I'm working on it.

[Joe G]

http://products.lwsupply.com/content/lwsupply/products/insulation/mineral_wool/thermafiber_safb.html

Widest batt size is 25". :nonono:

[68fastback]

Joe, don't know if this might be helpful in deciding/planning ...depending on what direction you're leaning...

http://www.nfba.org/uploads/RT_SprayPolyurethaneFoam-Web.pdf

[Tommy Gun]

:hey2:

I'm working on it.


We are too... :look:

[Carnut]

Widest batt size is 25". :nonono:

Yeah, fruit bats get twice that size.

[68fastback]

Giant Flying Fox bat :yikes:


http://stangsunited.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16115&stc=1

[Joe G]

We are too... :look:

:webers:

I wish I had even some of the limited help you have.

[Joe G]

Joe, don't know if this might be helpful in deciding/planning ...depending on what direction you're leaning...

http://www.nfba.org/uploads/RT_SprayPolyurethaneFoam-Web.pdf

Nice! :wtg:

[68fastback]

:uwelcome:

...might want to subscribe (free) to Frame Building News (http://www.constructionmagnet.com/freeinfo). Click that link (the mother company) then "magazines" at the top, then you can sign-up for FBN under some pretext (lol).

When I was consulting I used to get a whole bunch of trade mags including that one.

[68fastback]

Btw, there's an article on insulating post-frame buildings in the April edition of FBN but it's just a condensation of the paper above ...

[Tommy Gun]

Giant Flying Fox bat :yikes:


http://stangsunited.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16115&stc=1



that's a possum with wings!

[Tommy Gun]

Giant Flying Fox bat :yikes:


http://stangsunited.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16115&stc=1


Or could be Sharun, are those balls in its mouth? :look:

[68fastback]

...could be ...probably stole a purse. :haha:

[Tommy Gun]

:ohsnap:

[Carnut]

:redcard3:

[68fastback]

:tiptoe: ;-)

[The Bone]

Is this building finished yet?

[Alloy Dave]

Is this building finished yet?
:haha:

[Joe G]

Is this building finished yet?

I'm waiting until some old guy gets here from Kommiefornia this summer to help. :look:

[Joe G]

:haha::hey2:

[Tommy Gun]

:haha:


:webers:

[Alloy Dave]

:oops:

[Alloy Dave]

:wasn'tme:

[Alloy Dave]

:wasn'tme:
:fail:

[Tommy Gun]

:nonono:

[Alloy Dave]

:nonono:
I'd move.