14 Gauge Stranded Wire

[ati]

I need to run a 30amp power feed and ground from the fuse box under the hood to the passenger seat area in my Shelby. This wire needs to be 14 gauge stranded. The total length needed is 6'. The auto store wants $20.00 for a 15' roll of stranded 14G wire. I need 2 different colors so that would be $40.00 plus tax. I have 500' spools of assorted color 14G stranded house wire in my shop. Does anyone know if I can use the 14G stranded house wire instead of 14G stranded auto wire?

[Orf]

I need to run a 30amp power feed and ground from the fuse box under the hood to the passenger seat area in my Shelby. This wire needs to be 14 gauge stranded. The total length needed is 6'. The auto store wants $20.00 for a 15' roll of stranded 14G wire. I need 2 different colors so that would be $40.00 plus tax. I have 500' spools of assorted color 14G stranded house wire in my shop. Does anyone know if I can use the 14G stranded house wire instead of 14G stranded auto wire?

14G stranded is 14G stranded, no?

[ati]

14G stranded is 14G stranded, no?

Thats my thought also but I wanted to confirm with someone who knows auto electric just in case I shouldn't use it.

[KC BadCat]

its gonna be the same wire regardless....just be careful not to nick the insulation anywhere....that is a good bit of power running thru it.........make sure you run it off a fuse or put one inline under the hood somewhere.....

[Joe G]

14G stranded is 14G stranded, no?
Yes.... But the insulation type has different ratings. Example: some are rated for underground, some for in-wall, some for in conduit... Etc. My point is that resi grade stuff may not be rated for use under a hood where it would get wet, hot, oil/gas on it etc.

Would need to know the insulation types for both and I can look it up.

[Joe G]

....that is a good bit of power running thru it.........
Not really since it's only 12v.

[ati]

Yes.... But the insulation type has different ratings. Example: some are rated for underground, some for in-wall, some for in conduit... Etc. My point is that resi grade stuff may not be rated for use under a hood where it would get wet, hot, oil/gas on it etc.

Would need to know the insulation types for both and I can look it up.

I'll check out the insulation types and post it.

[KC BadCat]

Not really since it's only 12v.

12v from the battery will put a notch in a metal knife....ask me how I know.....LOL

.....and more than enough to start ignition if the point of contact is near something that can ignite.

[Orf]

Not really since it's only 12v.


12v from the battery will put a notch in a metal knife....ask me how I know.....LOL

.....and more than enough to start ignition if the point of contact is near something that can ignite.

It's not the volts that are dangerous - it's the amps.

I can touch a new 9v battery to my tongue to test it, because the amp rating is in milliamps. A 12v car battery has hundreds of cold-cranking amps, hence the notch in your knife. Only 3v difference between the two batteries.

[KC BadCat]

It's not the volts that are dangerous - it's the amps.

I can touch a new 9v battery to my tongue to test it, because the amp rating is in milliamps. A 12v car battery has hundreds of cold-cranking amps, hence the notch in your knife. Only 3v difference between the two batteries.

yep....that's why I suggested caution with the insulation, as well as a fuse as close to the battery as possible. I used to install 8 track players for friends in college...and yes I know that dates me! ...........and I ruined a good knife under the dash of a 70 chevy

for anything installed like this aftermarket, it may be a good idea to use the plastic hose stuff that you can put the wires inside of....

[Tommy Gun]

Yes.... But the insulation type has different ratings. Example: some are rated for underground, some for in-wall, some for in conduit... Etc. My point is that resi grade stuff may not be rated for use under a hood where it would get wet, hot, oil/gas on it etc.

Would need to know the insulation types for both and I can look it up.


Correct, it's just the insulation is different. For a car you don't want gas/oil breaking it down and don't want it to "rub through" anywhere.

I'd say use it if it's only 6 ft and just be careful it won't rub through and ground out anywhere.

.

[ati]

Correct, it's just the insulation is different. For a car you don't want gas/oil breaking it down and don't want it to "rub through" anywhere.

I'd say use it if it's only 6 ft and just be careful it won't rub through and ground out anywhere.

.

Any wire exposed under the hood will be encased in split loom tubing http://www.wiringproducts.com/corrugated-wire-loom?gclid=CNjVutvEuLwCFctcMgodHWsABg

[Tommy Gun]

I think you're plenty safe. I've wired tons of stuff over 25 years and have had no issue.

[The Bone]

The more strands of wire the better the wire. Electricity runs on the outside of the wire so the more strands the better the transfer of electricity. It may be called resistance dont know but more strands is better. House wire usually has one wire not sure why. Single strand wire will not work very well in a car.

[Tommy Gun]

The more strands of wire the better the wire. Electricity runs on the outside of the wire so the more strands the better the transfer of electricity. It may be called resistance dont know but more strands is better. House wire usually has one wire not sure why. Single strand wire will not work very well in a car.

I think it has to do w/ amps. I've never seen stranded wire used in a house myself except some odd situations that have transformers and the power(or amperage) is cut down.

I think the high amps of a house would heat up or burn stranded wire?

[ati]

The more strands of wire the better the wire. Electricity runs on the outside of the wire so the more strands the better the transfer of electricity. It may be called resistance dont know but more strands is better. House wire usually has one wire not sure why. Single strand wire will not work very well in a car.

The 14G house wire is stranded not solid.

[Joe G]

12v from the battery will put a notch in a metal knife....ask me how I know.....LOL

.....and more than enough to start ignition if the point of contact is near something that can ignite.


It's not the volts that are dangerous - it's the amps.

I can touch a new 9v battery to my tongue to test it, because the amp rating is in milliamps. A 12v car battery has hundreds of cold-cranking amps, hence the notch in your knife. Only 3v difference between the two batteries.
Not talking "danger", was talking about the amount of power running through it as Badcat said in Post # 4.

Volts x Amps = Watts, and Watts = Power, correct?

So... 120v x 30a > 12v x 30a, which is why you can get away with using only a 14 gauge wire on the 12v system but would need a much larger gauge (ie: smaller #) if you were pulling 30 amps on a 120v system.

[Tommy Gun]

The 14G house wire is stranded not solid.


What is it used for in your area?

I've never seen stranded wire used in a house in our area. Except like I said "right" at a transformer...such as an alarm system, door bell, etc.

[ati]

Not talking "danger", was talking about the amount of power running through it as Badcat said in Post # 4.

Volts x Amps = Watts, and Watts = Power, correct?

So... 120v x 30a > 12v x 30a, which is why you can get away with using only a 14 gauge wire on the 12v system but would need a much larger gauge (ie: smaller #) if you were pulling 30 amps on a 120v system.


On a house 30A would need a 10G wire.

[Joe G]

On a house 30A would need a 10G wire.
Exactly

[ati]

What is it used for in your area?

I've never seen stranded wire used in a house in our area. Except like I said "right" at a transformer...such as an alarm system, door bell, etc.

I'm not an electrician but I've been told stranded pulls through tight bends in conduit better.

Pulled this off another site.
Stranded works better with crimp on fork/ring terminals etc.
Solid terminates to devices better.
Stranded terminates/lays in position in contactors/control wiring better.
Solid is less expensive.
Stranded is more flexible when adding conductors to existing conduit.
Solid doesn't curl up as bad when you need to pull it off the roll.
Stranded lays into conduit better when you have to fill it to the max.
Its usually determined which to use depending on the situation.

[Tommy Gun]

Having never seen it, I'm wondering if it's not allowed here by code?

[twobjshelbys]

The 14G house wire is stranded not solid.


All 120V and 240V primary house wiring is solid conductor. Stranded wires are used from outlet to appliance.

There are exceptions to stranded wire in primary wiring but they tend to be 6ga or higher. I've never seen stranded wire used for anything under 10ga.

[ati]

All 120V and 240V primary house wiring is solid conductor. Stranded wires are used from outlet to appliance.

There are exceptions to stranded wire in primary wiring but they tend to be 6ga or higher. I've never seen stranded wire used for anything under 10ga.

Both 12G & 14G stranded copper wire and 12G & 14G solid copper wire are used regularly in new home construction in my area.

[68fastback]

Not really since it's only 12v.

True, it's only 1/10 the power of 30A at 120v...

...BUT 30A is 30A regardless of voltage and amperage (not voltage) determines wire gauge, so I think 14ga wire is not adequate -- should be 10ga, I think.

Btw, Home Depot sells stranded wire by the foot ...might be cheaper that way assuming insulation type is ok for automotive. Usually automotive wire needs to withstand solvents.

[Carnut]

I would just make sure it's fused properly and covered in sleeve. You should be good to go.

[The Bone]

I have never seen stranded wire in any construction including residential or commercial. Phone lines are single strand low voltage thermostat is also single wire 24 volts.

[ati]

I have never seen stranded wire in any construction including residential or commercial. Phone lines are single strand low voltage thermostat is also single wire 24 volts.

I'm sure its probably just different building practices/materials for different geographical areas.

[Alloy Dave]

I think it has to do w/ amps. I've never seen stranded wire used in a house myself except some odd situations that have transformers and the power(or amperage) is cut down.

I think the high amps of a house would heat up or burn stranded wire?I see stranded wire in houses every day. As a matter of fact, I bet you $1 that the electric service wire that comes from the electric riser on your roof or the pole to your house meter is stranded wire.

[Alloy Dave]

I have never seen stranded wire in any construction including residential or commercial. Phone lines are single strand low voltage thermostat is also single wire 24 volts.I see it every day in electrical panels.

[Alloy Dave]

Here are some examples....

Top left breaker
12227

Used as an uninsulated ground in this one
12228


Although 15A breaker, this was a 12g wire...I wrote it up due to the "nip" near the end
12229


Here is aluminum...I see that a lot too...perfectly acceptable if it's stranded
12230


Braided copper service wires, see it daily
12231


This is a no-no LOL
12232

[Tommy Gun]

I see stranded wire in houses every day. As a matter of fact, I bet you $1 that the electric service wire that comes from the electric riser on your roof or the pole to your house meter is stranded wire.


Yeah the outside wire is like 00 gauge, it's like 1" round. I was talking about indoor wiring between rooms and such. I've never seen stranded used in our area.

[Tommy Gun]

Here are some examples....

Top left breaker
12227

Used as an uninsulated ground in this one
12228


Although 15A breaker, this was a 12g wire...I wrote it up due to the "nip" near the end
12229


Here is aluminum...I see that a lot too...perfectly acceptable if it's stranded
12230


Braided copper service wires, see it daily
12231


This is a no-no LOL
12232


And I'm talking modern homes, we don't have any homes older than 40 years old around here. Lol

[68fastback]

Yeah the outside wire is like 00 gauge, it's like 1" round. I was talking about indoor wiring between rooms and such. I've never seen stranded used in our area.

You don't see it much becuase it's more expensive to make and has to be in a protective sheath (so does solid). Cable (e.g. Romex) uses solid and has the sheath manufctured right on it so is far cheaper where permitted by code, however stranded can be run in in flexible or rigid conduit (metal or PVC) depending on code. It's also very handy (tho costs more) when you have an existing underground conduit and need to run more than one circuit and sheathed solid cable just won't fit. It also pulls easier in some configurations. Some locations require metal conduit in basements (even in some rural areas) and some electricians will use stranded but, even where conduit is mandated, it's often cheaper to run a fully-sheathed solid-wire cable in the conduit because you don't have to deal with three (or four) wire spools simutaneously -- just one cable. That said, I believe code permits stranded to be used anywhere solid can be used tho both must be suitably protected -- per code, whether sheathed or in an approved conduit. Even some cities that only permit solid or flexible metal conduits still permit stranded or solid wire inside as far as I'm aware. Of course stranded and solid both need to have insulation that meets the current abrasion and temperature standards, so that 1990 stockpile of cable you may have in storage is no longer NEC-legal to use these days (especially dangerous in fluorescent light fixtures where ballast temps were melting prior insulation :yikes: hence the insulation spec change).

Also, amps are amps ...no matter if solid or stranded at whatever the voltage (up to the insulation's voltage limit). For example, a 14 ga wire can safely carry up 1800 watts of power at 120v -- 15amps x 120volts = 1800watts of power. At 110v that same cable can only safelty andle 1650 watts and that's why the nominal limit is often listed as 1650 -- from when 110v was the norm. However that same wire can only handle 180 watts at 12 volts, because that's still 15 amps (180/12). Amps (current) determines the required wire gauge but to determine the maximum power carrying capacity of that wire gauge you need to know the voltage too. Amps = watts / volts. Watts = volts x amps. Volts = watts / amps.

[KC BadCat]

now a days I think it comes down to cost and ease of installation....for many reasons solid wire is faster and easier to work with when you are wiring a whole house.....

[Carnut]

now a days I think it comes down to cost and ease of installation....for many reasons solid wire is faster and easier to work with when you are wiring a whole house.....

Agree both are allowed by code, until you get into hooking up devices subject to vibration and over a certain sizes. Solid wire is impractical over a certain size because it doesn't carry as much load (watts).

[Tommy Gun]

See what you started ati ??? :rant:


This is worse than religion :rofl3:

.

[68fastback]

When I installed our garage and basement subpanels I used sheathed cable -- 6/3 w/ground -- and the four 6 gauge wires in it were all 7-stranded -- thank goodness, because solid would have been very difficult to manage/pull.

Solid is also more prone to damage from nicks when stripping insulation, etc and then bending it to fit a fixture/box, etc which can cause low-density 'cracks' in teh copper and seriously reduce the wire's ampacity ...and cause a dangerous hot-spot in the wire.

---

Recently I was rewiring a vintage amplifier and (being thrifty) decided to repurpose a high quality Belden 3-prong grounded power cord from a 1993 IBM PC. They don't seem to make cords like that any more! First off the stranded wire looked like pure copper and was so very fine and flexible. Each of those three stranded wires was [obviously] insulated but in a very flexible color-coded rubber-like insulation. The three were then twisted together along with three 'rope' cords each of which was spiral-wrapped with a strand of stainless steel wire (possibly for strain-relief)! Then that whole twisted assembly was spiral wrapped (in the opposite direction) with an overlapped aluminum 'tape' jacket and then by a very flexible outer insulation. I could not believe how well this little [only 10A-rated] Belden cable was made! Back when nothing but the best was standard for Big Blue -lol. Wish I had another of those for my other amp because the newer Chinese computer cords are total crap by comparo.

[twobjshelbys]

Comments embedded in red inside the quote


Here are some examples....

The one following is a subpanel main service feed. This configuration is permitted by the code. Plus, it is 6ga wire (needed for the 50A breaker) and almost all 6ga or higher wire is stranded. By the way, this is a very nicely dressed panel!
Top left breaker
12227

If you are referring to the green wire, this again looks like 6ga wire. The bare wires look like a mix of 14 and 12 solid.
Used as an uninsulated ground in this one
12228


This is what I'm talking about that I do not believe is allowed in some codes. It is permitted, but the breaker termination is not proper and should never have passed inspection the first time. The splay almost makes it look like it was not twisted before the connection to the breaker was made. You can use a heaver gauge wire on an under rated breaker (i.e., 12 ga, which is normally 20a, on a 15a breaker. Just don't but 14ga wire on a 20a breaker. This is common if the length of the run to first termination is especially long. Is the source of the cable coming into this breaker inside conduit? In that case I would expect it to be a braided wire. You should also look carefully at the neutral (white) termination for this pair.
Although 15A breaker, this was a 12g wire...I wrote it up due to the "nip" near the end
12229


Yes, this is also a 6 ga wire on what I think is a 50a circuit, probably for a dryer. Did you insure that the termination to the breaker lugs was properly "doped"?
Here is aluminum...I see that a lot too...perfectly acceptable if it's stranded
12230


Yes, allowed, again, looks like 6ga, maybe 8ga. But there is so much other stuff wrong with this it makes my head swim...What happened to the service on the right? Yuck. This is so old that it should be replaced while the wall is open.
Braided copper service wires, see it daily
12231


Ooooh, ick...
This is a no-no LOL
12232

It is the stranded wire in the third picture that surprises me. I would really like to see the first outlet/switch attached to that branch circuit and the following downstream. If the braided wire is connected directly to a switch/plug screw termination would also gag me... I did this once in a remodel and we had to use a twist lock and transition to solid wire downstream from that point. This is because like I said you end up with two or three strands making connection to the plug, and if you feed through on the plug you can be trying to pull 15 or 20a on two or three strands.

[Alloy Dave]

Yes I did verify doping on the alum wires.

[Alloy Dave]

Yeah the outside wire is like 00 gauge, it's like 1" round. I was talking about indoor wiring between rooms and such. I've never seen stranded used in our area.

:blahblah: Now here come the excuses and clarifications lol

What wire services your electric dryers? I'll bet it's stranded...and that's a wire that's indoor and runs from room to room.

[Tommy Gun]

Gas dryer. :shades:

[Carnut]

:blahblah: Now here come the excuses and clarifications lol

What wire services your electric dryers? I'll bet it's stranded...and that's a wire that's indoor and runs from room to room.

To begin with, run down to your local wiring supplier and try and find a #6 solid wire, I doubt you will. To have the same current carrying ability in a solid wire it would have to be upsized to a #4 or larger, making it more expensive. Then think of how much harder it would be to install.

[ati]

See what you started ati ??? :rant:


This is worse than religion :rofl3:

.

Its interesting sometimes on how a thread evolves.
Talking with a few mechanics I was told that stranded auto wire is deferentially different than stranded house wire. Some of the differences were that stranded auto wire has more strands than stranded house wire, its insulation is usually oil and gas resistant and it has a higher heat tolerance than house wire.
I ended up using 14G stranded auto wire, I needed 2 colors (black & red) so I bought two 25' rolls at $8.00 each. I didn't want to take a chance on a short or malfunction on my project.

[Joe G]

Its interesting sometimes on how a thread evolves.
Talking with a few mechanics I was told that stranded auto wire is deferentially different than stranded house wire. Some of the differences were that stranded auto wire has more strands than stranded house wire, its insulation is usually oil and gas resistant and it has a higher heat tolerance than house wire.
.

I believe I mentioned 2 of the 3 from the beginning. :shades:


12249

[Boston Mike]

Yes.... But the insulation type has different ratings. Example: some are rated for underground, some for in-wall, some for in conduit... Etc. My point is that resi grade stuff may not be rated for use under a hood where it would get wet, hot, oil/gas on it etc.

Would need to know the insulation types for both and I can look it up.

Wow, Joe is smart. Who knew?

[ati]

I believe I mentioned 2 of the 3 from the beginning. :shades:


12249

:tiphat:

[Tommy Gun]

Don't be fooled, Joe Googled it. :look:

[Tommy Gun]

What is this project anyhow?

A small compressor for your blow up dolls? :popcorn:

.

[Joe G]

Don't be fooled, Joe Googled it. :look:
:hey2:

[Tommy Gun]

:sneaking:

[68fastback]

I believe I mentioned 2 of the 3 from the beginning. :shades:


12249
...some don't read back :giggle:

[68fastback]

Alan, 14 ga wire is only ok up to 7 feet max at 30A. If over 15 feet you'll need 10 gauge.
Just like in a house, amps are amps regardless of the voltage and amps determine wire gauge.
Automotive amperage chart (http://www.offroaders.com/tech/12-volt-wire-gauge-amps.htm)

[twobjshelbys]

:blahblah: Now here come the excuses and clarifications lol

What wire services your electric dryers? I'll bet it's stranded...and that's a wire that's indoor and runs from room to room.

Most dryers are only 30A and are adequately serviced with solid 10ga.... On the other hand an electric range is 40 or 50a and probably stranded 8ga. And has only two terminations - panel and plug, to a termination that is designed for stranded wire. Neither are household appliance branch circuits.

[twobjshelbys]

To begin with, run down to your local wiring supplier and try and find a #6 solid wire, I doubt you will. To have the same current carrying ability in a solid wire it would have to be upsized to a #4 or larger, making it more expensive. Then think of how much harder it would be to install.

When I wired my friend's temporary residence I used #8ga stranded copper for a 40A heater. When the electrician ran the power to the subpanel he used a #6 solid for the outside over head section.

[Carnut]

This thread is getting like the light bulb thread. It started out with using a short length of stranded conductor for a small electrical load and would be okay to use house wire because a twenty dollar roll of automotive grade wire was too expensive. It now has evolved into powering the a 1000 JIgawatt plus capacitor on a house dryer time machine.

Watt the heck.

[Tommy Gun]

Evolution

[Carnut]

Evolution

:haha:

[Tommy Gun]

:grin:

[ati]

Alan, 14 ga wire is only ok up to 7 feet max at 30A. If over 15 feet you'll need 10 gauge.
Just like in a house, amps are amps regardless of the voltage and amps determine wire gauge.
Automotive amperage chart (http://www.offroaders.com/tech/12-volt-wire-gauge-amps.htm)

Good find Dan thanks for posting.

[68fastback]

Good find Dan thanks for posting.

:tiphat2:

[papashelby]

What is this project anyhow?

A small compressor for your blow up dolls? :popcorn:

.

I'm thinking this is for a power seat. I did this mod right after I got my car just to keep the boss happy.