In-depth Analysis of New Ford 10-speed auto...

[68fastback]

This design is coming to Mustang for the 2018 'refresh' as well as to some Ford light trucks. While this is the Ford version of the Ford-GM joint-development 10-speed auto, Ford has further refined and cleverly packaged the trans as this well-done in-depth analysis by Truth About Cars spells out.

Article with diagrams and competitive comparos based initial and subsequent Ford patent filings...

(http://www.allfordmustangs.com/2015/11/26/inside-the-mustangs-new-10-speed-transmission/)

[The Bone]

I didn't read the article but a 10 speed trans seems like to many gears to me. I have 6 in my truck and around town I have to lock out 5/6. it goes to 6 but when you need to step on it it has to downshift to many gears.
I see it in big trucks that haul 80,000 pounds but in a P/U or Mustang. I find the paddle shiftier's a pain to use because they move with the steering wheel. If they are going this route than they need to be fixed in one spot.

[The Bone]

I read it and don't understand how adding more gears to a car will make it better. Only thing I guess at 65 MPH the thing will just idle. It must be driven by a EPA thing.

[Carnut]

I'm waiting for the 15 speed.

[68fastback]

It's a more efficient design and also makes it easier to always have a closer match to the ideal gearing for the current situation, which means greater efficiency and torque delivery. If I recall (from when I first posted it) it was 6 gears under 1:1, one 'straight-thru,' and 3 OD gears ...pretty darn flexible!

Maybe not for the GT500 or GT350 :rofl3: but it would definitely work well in gen-II 3.5EB Raptor :shades: ...among other things. Then again, it's a longitudinal trans, so also might see it as a 5.0 Mustang option in the future.

Actually, I think the Hellcat has a 8-speed auto option, doesn't it? ...tailored properly, has to be good for a tenth or so?

[Joe G]

I didn't read the article but a 10 speed trans seems like to many gears to me. I have 6 in my truck and around town I have to lock out 5/6. it goes to 6 but when you need to step on it it has to downshift to many gears.
I see it in big trucks that haul 80,000 pounds but in a P/U or Mustang. I find the paddle shiftier's a pain to use because they move with the steering wheel. If they are going this route than they need to be fixed in one spot.

Why is it I picture The Bone just like this when posting? :innocent:



http://www.hulu.com/watch/282827


http://youtu.be/BbU4Cb4A4-o

[68fastback]

:spitcopy:

...from Grumpy Old Men :rofl3

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Grumpy+Old+Men+Boat+Scene+YouTube&view=detail&&mid=D8B7544DA552213436E3D8B7544DA552213436E3

[Carnut]

It's a more efficient design and also makes it easier to always have a closer match to the ideal gearing for the current situation, which means greater efficiency and torque delivery. If I recall (from when I first posted it) it was 6 gears under 1:1, one 'straight-thru,' and 3 OD gears ...pretty darn flexible!

Maybe not for the GT500 or GT350 :rofl3: but it would definitely work well in gen-II 3.5EB Raptor :shades: ...among other things. Then again, it's a longitudinal trans, so also might see it as a 5.0 Mustang option in the future.

Actually, I think the Hellcat has a 8-speed auto option, doesn't it? ...tailored properly, has to be good for a tenth or so?

At some point, the number of gears gets inefficient. At exactly what point depends upon the usage but generally, engines have "sweet spots" that are in a range of rpm, load and throttle position. The more gears means more weight and friction which reduce the advantage of getting into a finer "sweet spot". You also have to consider the added cost as it relates to ROI over the period of ownership. Getting one MPG better for an added cost of $5000 may yield a negative ROI depending upon the cost of fuel, miles driven and the length of ownership and resale value as well.

Years ago they talked about infinite range transmissions but cost, packaging and other factors killed it.

[Joe G]

Years ago they talked about infinite range transmissions but cost, packaging and other factors killed it.

Isnt' that the CVT? Saw them in a few cars over the years and I think Subaru and a lot of the Hybrids use them.

[68fastback]

Isnt' that the CVT? Saw them in a few cars over the years and I think Subaru and a lot of the Hybrids use them.

Yup. Most hybrids including the Focus Hybrid (possibly Fusion too -- dunno) have CVTs. The current Ford CVTs are unrelated to the problematic CVT in the Ford 500 (remember that?) -- that was the CVT Ford bought from GM, plant and all, and got snookered when they found out the trans controller has a high failure rate and the only way to get to the controller is to pull the engine and trans -doh! Ford sold it all two years later ...took a beating.

[The Bone]

Ford needs to fix what is broken and use better interior materials. Why should door panels fall apart and fail to help the guys that have this problem. I think a 10 speed is a waste of time and money. I like the feel of a solid gear change and I bet this does away with that but still door panels fall apart and no one is working on a fix.

[The Bone]

Why is it I picture The Bone just like this when posting? :innocent:



http://www.hulu.com/watch/282827


http://youtu.be/BbU4Cb4A4-o
:ban:

[Joe G]

:ban::spitcopy:


:hug:

[68fastback]

Actually Ford is working on a new technology to make interior soft panels that don't require bonding of a separate surface material to the 'foam' because they are effectively one ...the surface essentially being a specially processed part of the otherwise homogenious panel ...read that a while back somewhere but dunno status. Possibly they'd then license it to a tier-producer vs make such themselves?

---

The payback of the 10-speed automatic is primarily in better fuel economy and drivability but also performance ...especially when hauling. In effect it's a close-ratio non-OD 6-speed with an additional super-low 1st (not unlike Mercedes new 9-speed) and three ODs added above the 1:1 7th-gear to better optimize cruising efficiency across a broader variety of conditions. Also, it doesn't necessarily index through all 10 speeds and cruise in 10th all the time ...it's a function of load, terrain, 'driver intent' (a calculated Ford parametric) and other factors.

It will also help secure F150 as the most capable AND efficient 1/2 ton on the planet -- critical to the super-valuable F150 sales advertising legacy going forward. Ram's 8-speed and diesel being is it's main efficiency competitor right now, but diesel fuel is considerably more expensive than gas (something Ram doesn't talk about) as is the diesel engine itself -- and Ram's 1/2 ton diesel is noisier too (noisier than Ford's Super-duty diesel). While the stout little 2.7EB in the F150 wins in cost/mile (vs MPG) Ford needs to marry the 800+# ft-lb 3.5EB gen-2 to the 10-speed to stomp on Ram's testicles in max towing AND MPG (Ram likes to tout MPG because it ignores diesel fuel cost) as well as fleet cost/mile (probably more important for SuperDuty than F150).

GM carefully planned their 1/2 ton strategy to go for Ford's jugular in 2015 because of Ford's alloy-transition as they knew it necessarily would involve a transitional production hiccup. So GM is offering $10,500(!!) cash-back on some 2015 P/Us and it's looking close ...it's a full-court press to topple Ford's F150 volume legacy (isn't going to happen, I think, but we shall see when the dust settles).

Remember, from the get go EB technology was intended as a 'diesel-killer' technology of sorts -- one that obviates the need for diesels in North American cars and light trucks up through F150 -- since it's more cost-effective to produce and, properly engineered for the task, is squarely in a diesel's cylinder pressure and efficiency wheelhouse too. Of course there's the 4.x(?) mini diesel in the wings if it looks like diesel fuel will drop significantly (relative to gas) in a sustained sense (remember it used to be almost the same as gas 10 years ago?) ...I doubt it will now that super-low sulfur diesel is Federal law.

Makes me wonder if/when Ford might bring a similar 10-speed to the SuperDuty arena too :shades:

[Alloy Dave]

I'm waiting for the 15 speed.Get a bicycle.

[68fastback]

Get a bicycle.

:idea: ...actually bike is a great analogy! ...all those speeds make it terrain-adaptive, efficient to peddle, and you use the gears you need.

[Carnut]

:idea: ...actually bike is a great analogy! ...all those speeds make it terrain-adaptive, efficient to peddle, and you use the gears you need.

I don't like to peddle, it makes me tired.

[68fastback]

:spitcopy: short squirrel legs?

[Joe G]

Ummm.... better rethink that. :yikes:


http://www.slowtwitch.com/articles/images/6/84076-largest_SquirrelCrash.jpg

[Carnut]

Ummm.... better rethink that. :yikes:


http://www.slowtwitch.com/articles/images/6/84076-largest_SquirrelCrash.jpg

Squirrel lives matter. :mob:

[68fastback]

It's really part of a secret rodent underground movement: RAW (Rodents Against Wheels) -- poor squirrel made the ultimate sacrifice!

:haha:

[Carnut]

He will be rewarded with unlimited acorns in the afterlife.

[68fastback]

He will be rewarded with unlimited acorns in the afterlife.

Wow! Not just 72 acorns? :hiding: :lol:

[Carnut]

Not to mention the virgin acorn oil.

[CH53Driver]

Squirrel lives matter. :mob:

A relative of yours?

[68fastback]

Not to mention the virgin acorn oil.

:rofl3: