2019 C8 'Vette Coming as Mid-engine...

[68fastback]

"The News also quotes former GM product czar Bob Lutz (http://www.autoblog.com/tag/bob+lutz/), who says the mid-engine Corvette was approved but then shelved before the company's bankruptcy in 2009. Interestingly, he also suggests the next-gen Vette could have some sort of electric component that could give the car up to 15 miles of range."

"Going to a mid-engine layout would be a dramatic departure from the Corvette's more than 60-year history, but it would allow GM to compete with a different range of supercars (http://www.autoblog.com/category/supercars/), including the Ford GT (http://www.autoblog.com/ford/gt/) and European exotics."

In a separate recent article Lutz felt it would not replace the front-engined 'vette but rather be a new offering ...implied a possible Cadillac tie-in.


Autoblog... (http://www.autoblog.com/2016/08/04/mid-engine-chevy-corvette-c8-emperor-2019/)

[twobjshelbys]

I thought there were topcis here on this already, but anyway....

This will be the "new ZR1". (Thus, it was referred to as Zora earlier, and I suspect will still be).

The price will be proportional to the previous "regular", "Z06", "ZR1" progression and probably come in around 100-110K.

As with the current generation of Corvettes, say the past 6-10 years, the Corvette in this configuraiton will be the sports car deal of the century (and we're not very far in). The difference between Corvettes and all the rest (Ferrari, Lambo, and the new FGT) is that Corvette truly doesn't care about being exclusive. They will build as many as people will buy, and they know that they will be worth 1/2 of what they paid for them. For a track rat car, the high end Vette is a steal.

[Tommy Gun]

I think it's worth less than 1/2 :look:

[twobjshelbys]

No mid engine Corvette at NAIAS Chicago 2018

http://autoweek.com/article/rumormill/wheres-chevys-midengine-corvette

[68fastback]

...now planned for release next year ...I believe GM informally confirmed that recently.

No point in rushing it ...there's no other new competitive offering to steal its thunder and they already sunk good money into tweaking the current 'vette so why not even keep that version around for the first year (or longer) concurrent with the mid-engine and then cut it since pricing and performance effectively put them in two different segments anyhow, imo ...they also could have had some normal issues they felt made more sense to push off a year, tho I haven't heard anything specific.

[twobjshelbys]

...now planned for release next year ...I believe GM informally confirmed that recently.


A number of years ago in Lyons there was this bar/restaurant. It was a locals hangout, had a fair week-day after work crowd that paid the bills and a pretty decent weekend afternoon draw for music and weekday evening card tournaments. The couple that owned it wanted to retire and sold it. They closed for remodeling. And the remodeling went on and on and on. The new owners (who everyone knew) promised it would be "open real soon, any day now". After a while it became a standing joke and became the "Opening Soon Saloon". It did reopen after almost two years (the remodel should have taken a few months, and it was a sign of what the new owners really were up to.)

Chevy has been stoking the rumors of a mid-engine Corvette since Ford came out with the first Ford GT in 05. "Yep, we're going to do one of those too". "When?" "Any day now".

The Opening Soon Saloon did finally open, it lost money and was sold and closed again for remodeling and seems to be on another trend to do the same.

Meanwhile, GM keeps procrastinating. For a while it was "if not Chicago then one of the shows after that", now it's "Chicago 2019", but that's OK, we'll have one any day now. I'll believe it when I see it. Most likely C10 or C11.

[68fastback]

Making me laugh here! Yeah, it does seem that way at times.

You know, reminds me of a meeting in LaGaude France. The French have a word that made it into English but that we translate differently. I remember giving a pitch to Big Blue folks in LaGaude and, in the roll-out, we were positioning one function for release 2 or, possibly 3 at the latest, depending on various market trending. In the US when I'd pitch the plan I'd characterize that item as "eventually" and no one ever had a problem because in English eventually means you are going to do it, just not at the start and the only question is exactly when. When I pitched it in LaGaude instead of hearing "eventually" the French ears heard the French word "eventualment" and all faces dropped. I stopped dead in my tracks ...I was confused and asked why the long faces? They suggested not doing that function was unacceptable -- but I do plan to do it, I said! They suggested that maybe I meant "finalement" not "eventually" which I interpreted as "at the very end" or "last release." Anyhow, apparently in French "eventualment" (what their 'ears' thought they heard) means you're never actually going to do it whereas "finalement" means you will do it but not early-on :doh: ...screwy, eh? :lol: So maybe GM will do it eventually! :haha:

[Tommy Gun]

The type car and price point put the Vette in a “niche” class by itself.

Just some old guys dream of owning one to say they have one. At the price “most” won’t track the car and use the potential.

So why does GM persist?

In our area GM doesn’t seem to do well.

Maybe I’m bias, but GM sucks.






:sofa:






:haha:

.

[twobjshelbys]

So maybe GM will do it eventually!

And you know what everyone will say when they do it?

Finally!

[Tommy Gun]

No really, who do they go against?


Mustangs and Chargers are a totally different class.


Ford GT is way out of a Vettes league...always has been.


Viper?


Viper is gone, maybe Vette gone next?


Do people even buy upgraded Vettes anymore?


Where are the numbers? :popcorn:

[twobjshelbys]

The type car and price point put the Vette in a “niche” class by itself.

Just some old guys dream of owning one to say they have one. At the price “most” won’t track the car and use the potential.

So why does GM persist?

In our area GM doesn’t seem to do well.

Maybe I’m bias, but GM sucks.






:sofa:






:haha:

.


The Corvette has always been a "steal". Really, if you're looking for a track car the Z06 is **** hard to beat for price/performance. The Zora will likely be priced in the ZR1 range which does draw more of a "prestige" ownership class rather than "drive the snot out of it" owners. But those willing to flog it around a track will be pleasantly surprised. They would be safe pricing probably in the 150K for base and 200K for built-out. I would also expect that there will be lots of extras and options like wings and other things.

As for the "no show at NAIAS", that was almost a given given the splashy announcement of the new ZR1. A Zora now would just distract from that car. You don't announce the flagship and then announce a new flagship before the first has even shipped one unit.

I hope they do it, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Tommy Gun]

I go to the track w Mustang clubs, Audi clubs, and clubs open to all cars.

The most cars I ever see on track are Mustangs, BMWs, Porsche’s and Ford GTs...only a couple Vettes ever run in our groups.

Maybe it’s just our area.

[68fastback]

And you know what everyone will say when they do it?

Finally!

:lol: Exactly! ...or should I say "exactment!" ;-)

[68fastback]

I go to the track w Mustang clubs, Audi clubs, and clubs open to all cars.

The most cars I ever see on track are Mustangs, BMWs, Porsche’s and Ford GTs...only a couple Vettes ever run in our groups.

Maybe it’s just our area.

Maybe stores in VA don't stock enough golf shirts :lol: ...old joke.

[Tommy Gun]

:look:

[68fastback]

:lol:

[Tommy Gun]

:rofl3:

[Alloy Dave]

No really, who do they go against?


Mustangs and Chargers are a totally different class.


Ford GT is way out of a Vettes league...always has been.


Viper?


Viper is gone, maybe Vette gone next?


Do people even buy upgraded Vettes anymore?


Where are the numbers? :popcorn:


http://themepack.me/i/c/749x468/media/g/144/nissan-gtr-theme-10.jpg

https://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/acura/nsx/2017/ot/2017_acura_nsx_LIFE1_ot_1003163_1280.jpg

[JTB]

https://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/acura/nsx/2017/ot/2017_acura_nsx_LIFE1_ot_1003163_1280.jpg

^^
That's Tony Starks Car...

[Tommy Gun]

The Acura is $180K to $225K, totally different class again...


I’ve seen 3 of these sell at our local dealer, love to know what those people do for a living. ;)

[68fastback]

The Acura is $180K to $225K, totally different class again...


I’ve seen 3 of these sell at our local dealer, love to know what those people do for a living. ;)

In 2017 the top earning professions were:

1- cardiologist
2- radiologist
3- anesthesiologist

...all averaged nationally in the $338-356K range in 2017 -- and almost all of the top 10 were also in the medical field.

But, if you really want to be rich, have a job fixing car stuff! :spend:

:haha:

[Joe G]

Maybe stores in VA don't stock enough golf shirts :lol: ...old joke.

Or Members Only jackets and gold chain necklaces. :look:

[Joe G]

The Acura is $180K to $225K, totally different class again...




I’ve seen 3 of these sell at our local dealer, love to know what those people do for a living. ;)

Heard they're automotive interior reconditioning specialists. :look:

[Joe G]

But, if you really want to be rich, have a job fixing car stuff! :spend:

:haha:

:spitcopy: :iagree:

[68fastback]

:lol: ...I didn't know what to call TG's gigs :rofl3:

[twobjshelbys]

Car & Driver May 2018 says mid engine Corvette for 2020. I don't think it's serious. They also speculate a new Viper.

[68fastback]

I think mid-engine 'vette is given ...whatever they decide to call it -lol

[tekheavy]

Did this happen yet? :look:

[68fastback]

...long pregnancy, eh? :lol: ...but it's coming ...probably will debut with a 600HP dry-sump pushrod LT-6(?) and then get a 32V DOHC a year or two ater :shades:

[Tommy Gun]

Chevy sucks

[tekheavy]

Chevy rules

I agree. :popcorn:

[twobjshelbys]

...long pregnancy, eh? :lol: ...but it's coming ...probably will debut with a 600HP dry-sump pushrod LT-6(?) and then get a 32V DOHC a year or two ater :shades:


It must be a machine. Mammals can't have a pregnancy that lasts for nearly 20 years. GM groaned when the 05-06 Ford GT came out and admitted that the 2017 NFGT caught them off guard (as to design) so bagged what was in progress for a fresh start. It's the longest running joke in the auto industry.

[Tommy Gun]

I agree. :popcorn:



:nonono:

[68fastback]

Chevy sucks

:spitcopy: :goodpost: :iagree: :rofl3:

[68fastback]

It must be a machine. Mammals can't have a pregnancy that lasts for nearly 20 years. GM groaned when the 05-06 Ford GT came out and admitted that the 2017 NFGT caught them off guard (as to design) so bagged what was in progress for a fresh start. It's the longest running joke in the auto industry.

:lol:

It will be a force to recon with, no doubt.

I still want to see a son-of-NFGT w/ a well-tweaked 5.2 gen-3 Coyote ...just because such a stunning ride needs V8 rumble ...will never happen -lol- but... <sigh>

[tekheavy]

Chevy sucks

I can't image you'd choose a Mustang over a Vette.

[Tommy Gun]

I can't image you'd choose a Mustang over a Vette.


I’ve never liked anything about Vettes. Don’t really know why, but just simply don’t have any interest in them.

I’ve been in tons of them over the years working on them, but just not my thing.

Mustangs not really my first choice either, but I can’t afford my first choices...Ford GT, Ferrari’s, Lambos.....

[Alloy Dave]

Chevy sucks

23618

[tekheavy]

23618


:webers:

[Tommy Gun]

Chevys after 1970 suck.

[68fastback]

:spitcopy:

[tekheavy]

:doh:

[tekheavy]

How 'bout Pontiac? :popcorn:

[Tommy Gun]

Poor old nig... I mean, they are okay up until the early 70’s gas crisis also.

Wish I had one of these older cars, but they are getting untouchable in price in decent condition.

I like certain ‘67 Chevelle SS’s and ‘69 Camaros, early 60’s Vettes. But they have to be the right combo and right colors.

All the ones I like are way over priced.

Apart from that I’d have to go w an early box Bronco with 4 wheel independent suspension, coyote motor, built trans, full custom interior. But under $40K :haha:

[68fastback]

C8 hard-top convertible spied at Big Lots :rofl3:

While unsure of the mechanism photographer did confirm that it was a solid surface, not canvas.

Looks good!!

Link.. (https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2019/32/spy-shots-c8-corvette-convertible-confirms-hard-top?utm_source=ET&utm_medium=email&utm_content=285449&utm_campaign=eNews).

[Tommy Gun]

Saw a pic somewhere of a C8 wreck. Looked like he crossed the line on a curvy mountain road.

Probably that GM president that doesn’t know how to drive again. Lol

[68fastback]

Saw a pic somewhere of a C8 wreck. Looked like he crossed the line on a curvy mountain road.

Probably that GM president that doesn’t know how to drive again. Lol

:spitcopy:

[Tommy Gun]

:rofl3:

[tekheavy]

:nonono:

[Alloy Dave]

I love the look of the new one (liked the previous one also). Who knows, I may test drive one this fall or whenever they come out.

[68fastback]

I love the look of the new one (liked the previous one also). Who knows, I may test drive one this fall or whenever they come out.

It's only around 550HP and, according to chief engineer, it is DCT-only ...no room for a proper 3 pedal footbox with the tub moved 16.5" forward (vs front engine) and front wheel well right there. They said recent 'vettes that offered both manual and automatic had an 80% take rate on the automatics.

Given the superiority of the DCT I see their decision as a no-brainer.

The GT500 does have plenty of footbox room so they COULD do a manual version in the future if they decided to, but I suspect once actual owners start reporting on the joys of the DCT it might be all over.

[68fastback]

Oh, I also found it interesting that, in the final analysis, the C8 team claims the reason the C8 actually happened (i.e. was not cancelled) is that the slower 0-60 times of the heavier front on the supercharged 638HP ZR1 could not beat the 505HP Z06 until they solicited the help of Michelin for revised tires (I assume a Cup-2 variant). Apparently they [rightly, imo] felt they could not properly market the ZR1 with 133 more HP that was slower 0-60 -- tires to the rescue!

That achieved, they apparently were successful in selling the realization that weight distribution would be the name of the game going forward and [like the FGT] that required a fundamental format change. Their primary benchmark was the Ferrari 458 because 1) it's a V8 and 2) they felt it's the best sports car in the segment.

---

Not surprisingly, Michelin Cup-2 FR's latest dual compound modifications has enabled the '19/20 GT350 suspension retuning and, no doubt, the coming 2020 GT500 will have similar.
Btw, 2020 order banks have been accepting GT500 orders and some VINs have already been assigned although actual blend and build will not occur for a couple/few weeks yet (early Sept, I believe).

[Alloy Dave]

It's only around 550HP and, according to chief engineer, it is DCT-only ...no room for a proper 3 pedal footbox with the tub moved 16.5" forward (vs front engine) and front wheel well right there. They said recent 'vettes that offered both manual and automatic had an 80% take rate on the automatics.

Given the superiority of the DCT I see their decision as a no-brainer.

The GT500 does have plenty of footbox room so they COULD do a manual version in the future if they decided to, but I suspect once actual owners start reporting on the joys of the DCT it might be all over.
Good info. I've not been in a vette recently, but the times I did the seating position was too low/awkward for me...that would be a major factor.

[Alloy Dave]

Oh, I also found it interesting that, in the final analysis, the C8 team claims the reason the C8 actually happened (i.e. was not cancelled) is that the slower 0-60 times of the heavier front on the supercharged 638HP ZR1 could not beat the 505HP Z06 until they solicited the help of Michelin for revised tires (I assume a Cup-2 variant). Apparently they [rightly, imo] felt they could not properly market the ZR1 with 133 more HP that was slower 0-60 -- tires to the rescue!

That achieved, they apparently were successful in selling the realization that weight distribution would be the name of the game going forward and [like the FGT] that required a fundamental format change. Their primary benchmark was the Ferrari 458 because 1) it's a V8 and 2) they felt it's the best sports car in the segment.

---

Not surprisingly, Michelin Cup-2 FR's latest dual compound modifications has enabled the '19/20 GT350 suspension retuning and, no doubt, the coming 2020 GT500 will have similar.
Btw, 2020 order banks have been accepting GT500 orders and some VINs have already been assigned although actual blend and build will not occur for a couple/few weeks yet (early Sept, I believe).
So do you think they will cease production in winter due to the tires per the video I posted? Seems to me they'd continue production and just figure out a way to instruct people not to drive the car in the colder temps. What would a person from Minnesota do if they took delivery of their GT500 in January when it's -5F? Would they be allowed to drive it home?

[68fastback]

Good info. I've not been in a vette recently, but the times I did the seating position was too low/awkward for me...that would be a major factor.

They did say they worked hard to preserve existing ingress/egress (a mixed blessing) the context being having a structural backbone/spine vs perimeter which would have required much wider sills than the current vette. So it sounds like it will be just as low but the sill reach-over will not be materially wider ...sort of damning by faint praise since the existing car's ingress/egress is no picnic for some. The smaller footwell could make it a bit more difficult but in the R&T Q&A they seemed very aware of that so I suspect it won't be materially worse.