Insurance tracking widget

[twobjshelbys]

We are going through the annual auto/homeowners renewals (everyone wants to jack rates about 25% year to year so we always shop here).

All of them will lower your rates if you let them put a tracking widget on the car. They are tight lipped about what they watch and report and some have it on all the time forever (no way) while some only do 2-3 months.

Anyone had one?

[Tommy Gun]

No, invasion of privacy.


Our home and car rates never go up.

Of course buying a newer car has much more expensive insurance...

[Alloy Dave]

Got offered one, no way I'm taking it. If they were honest about it maybe..."We want to track your movement so if there's an accident we can prove what you were actually doing versus what you SAY you were doing" but they won't do that. **** sneaky companies.

[68fastback]

Agree ...no way I'd do one either. In an accident situation they will use it anyway they can to shed liability and/or reduce/deny payout based on any possible contributory negligence, e.g. if speeding, etc. It's clear they're not using it to find safer drivers (already a customer) though they can use it to shed high-risk drivers. So, to reduce your rate, it really can only be used to shed liability. Progressive was pushing this in the Las Vegas area when the kids lived there pre-2010 but they decided not to do it after talking with their lawyer friend.

[twobjshelbys]

There are some that are permanent, and they set your rates according to miles driven, speeds, braking/acceleration etc (and bill you monthly accordingly). They are true big brother boxes. This one isn't permanent. In this instance they connect it for three months. For us it would find we rarely get much above 45MPH and spend most of our time stopped at stop lights. And they also watch acceleration and braking. (But, get in an accident and POOF!)

[68fastback]

...even steering wheel angle ...in an accident they would know if you were turning away vs toward vs took no evasive action, etc ...especially useful to them if someone is seriously injured.

Today in NY you have to get a judge to approve a subpoena to get a deep scan by a car manufacturer's rep of the 'black box' recorder (which has access to all the same info for some interval before an incident), but with that plug-in your giving your insurance company legal access to any and all such potentially self-incriminating information ...essentially waiving an important constitutional right. That is why you have to get a judge in NY to determine a deep scan is warranted despite your constitutional right to not self-incriminate (since it's your car), but that plug-in tosses those rights out the window at the whim of the insurance company. Worse, they don't necessarily have to share that info with you unless it's used against you in a court of law but, having such info, they can use it in ways not requiring disclosure. I think the downside far outweighs the upside for the owner and just the opposite for the insurance company.

[JTB]

Having an unsavoury insurance company track your whereabouts and driving behaviour in REAL TIME, should be illegal.

Personal privacy and liberty are under assault.

[68fastback]

Probably is illegal, unless you give them permission ...but I don't think those plug-ins transmit (at least not last I looked into it) vs just logging all the data -- the device is passive and just data logs ...device and date being the insurance company's property.

---

However, for at least the last 10 years cell phones keep tracking logs of where you are, everywhere you have been and how long you've been everywhere.

In the Carpenter vs US case the defendant's location, key to prosecuting him, was obtained from his cell phone without a warrant; Carpenter's lawyers sued to block the data, but Federal court ruled Carpenter's conviction hinged on his cell phone location data which is not Constitutionally protected. He also lost a Federal appeal at the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals where the judges ruled in the appellate decision that cell phone location data did not merit Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable searches and that the officers did not need a warrant.

If you have anything except an older flip-phone that's turned off, your cell phone knows everything about your whereabouts. Of course, you don't have to help anyone get into your phone and its security is rather bulletproof but, unlike some other information (like actual call content), the cell carrier has ALL of your location history anyway, so police get it from them. There are well more than 100K such data requests processed annually in the US by cell carriers for law enforcement.

Of course, if there's a driving incident, knowing where you've been is generally not as useful to an insurance company as knowing precisely how you were actually driving -- and IF where you've been is important to a [criminal] case they can probably just get that from the cell carrier.

[Alloy Dave]

I can see the day where somebody has an accident, they know they are at fault, so they rip out the computer and burn it in a fire before the police/insurance company can get it.

[68fastback]

:haha:

...possibly can legally do it if you haven't been subpoenaed or charged with anything yet ...it's your computer!

Then again if you're Hillary, you can destroy things ever after subpoenaed and no one seems to give a sh!t :doh:

...I know people have removed their insurance 'widgets' ...and played dumb.

[twobjshelbys]

Here is what they claim the record:


Mileage
Time of Day
Acceleration
Braking
Location
Technology Source
Trip Type (System Generated)
Trip Type (User Selected)
Mobile Phone Type
Technology ID Number
Ignition On and Off
Technology Connection Event
Technology Disconnection Event


I found this in their web page. It is NOT in the official disclosure/privacy statement.

I'm inclined to give it a shot. We get an initial 10% discount. It could go down to 5% and as much as 30%. We drive only for errands these days, and spend most of our time in 30-45MPH zones, and at that spend most of the time at stop lights (Vegas has, or so it seems, configured their synchronized traffic lights to insure you hit every one of them red.

[68fastback]

Could you tell if they somehow transmit using your cell? Maybe that's just recording if/when you use your cell and what type it is.

Do you get a discount if you take the Nevada Safe Driving course. In NY you get 10% off all the liability stuff if you take the course every three years. Can do in classroom or online. So that might be another possibility too.

[twobjshelbys]

Could you tell if they somehow transmit using your cell? Maybe that's just recording if/when you use your cell and what type it is.

Do you get a discount if you take the Nevada Safe Driving course. In NY you get 10% off all the liability stuff if you take the course every three years. Can do in classroom or online. So that might be another possibility too.

I just went over the quotes and the course is factored in. However the last time I looked the cost if the course for both of us exceeded the savings by a high margin. Plus the time to go wherever to take it. I think aaa and aarp offer it here.

[68fastback]

I just went over the quotes and the course is factored in. However the last time I looked the cost if the course for both of us exceeded the savings by a high margin. Plus the time to go wherever to take it. I think aaa and aarp offer it here.

Wow! That's terrible!

Here it's only $25 so we save quite a bit ...we've been doing the AARP (not members tho) course b/c it's so cheap. Some of the others do cost more.

[onecrazydog]

Here is what they claim the record:


Acceleration
Braking


I found this in their web page. It is NOT in the official disclosure/privacy statement.


Count me out...

[Boston Mike]

No, invasion of privacy.


Our home and car rates never go up.

Of course buying a newer car has much more expensive insurance...

I take it you have thrown your cell phone out? They know where you are based just on that. Might as well save some money while being spied on.

[twobjshelbys]

Wow! That's terrible!

Here it's only $25 so we save quite a bit ...we've been doing the AARP (not members tho) course b/c it's so cheap. Some of the others do cost more.


How long does the AARP course take? Looks like it's about $20 with the discount. AAA says theirs takes 5 hours but it looks like it's the state mandated course for getting points removed. I'm in the mode of getting a check off not in learning something I already know (and that 50 years of habits will override anyway)

[twobjshelbys]

Count me out...

Maybe, but like I said, can't do anything excessive anyway since the lights are so badly timed. Our most frequent drive is to the Home Depot/Walmart/Sams shopping mall 1.5 miles away (or within a 1/2 mile radius of that). I usually sit at 2 lights for 7 minutes.

The GT is not involved in this - only the Honda and truck.

[Tommy Gun]

Here is what they claim the record:


Mileage
Time of Day
Acceleration
Braking
Location
Technology Source
Trip Type (System Generated)
Trip Type (User Selected)
Mobile Phone Type
Technology ID Number
Ignition On and Off
Technology Connection Event
Technology Disconnection Event


I found this in their web page. It is NOT in the official disclosure/privacy statement.

I'm inclined to give it a shot. We get an initial 10% discount. It could go down to 5% and as much as 30%. We drive only for errands these days, and spend most of our time in 30-45MPH zones, and at that spend most of the time at stop lights (Vegas has, or so it seems, configured their synchronized traffic lights to insure you hit every one of them red.



I would burn up the chip that records acceleration. Just sayin’

.

[Tommy Gun]

I take it you have thrown your cell phone out? They know where you are based just on that. Might as well save some money while being spied on.


I have practically everything on my phone turned off, hopefully the tracking stuff is off too. Lol

[Tommy Gun]

Count me out...



:webers:

[Tommy Gun]

How long does the AARP course take? Looks like it's about $20 with the discount. AAA says theirs takes 5 hours but it looks like it's the state mandated course for getting points removed. I'm in the mode of getting a check off not in learning something I already know (and that 50 years of habits will override anyway)


We have online safety courses in our state that earn you 2 points (or 5, can’t remember) lol


I’m at plus 5 points and that’s all they allow on your record. :(

[68fastback]

How long does the AARP course take? Looks like it's about $20 with the discount. AAA says theirs takes 5 hours but it looks like it's the state mandated course for getting points removed. I'm in the mode of getting a check off not in learning something I already know (and that 50 years of habits will override anyway)

Essentially a full day: approx. 9:00-3:30 w/30 minute break for lunch. The online one you can do in about under 5 hours and can break it up across a few days, if you like, but I've come to like the classroom approach ...you just have suppress your instinct to strangle the really 'slow' old-times who probably shouldn't be driving anyhow -lol We view it as penance we have to do ever 3 years (in NY). It is the same course ...we do it for the insurance reduction but it also removes points (I forget how many). After the class you get a completion receipt and then the actual certificate (2-part) in the mail about 2-weeks later ...you keep one part and the other you give/send to your insurance carrier.

[68fastback]

We have online safety courses in our state that earn you 2 points (or 5, can’t remember) lol


I’m at plus 5 points and that’s all they allow on your record. :(

Our points (actually my darling's -lol) washed off last year ...so we do the course just for the premium reduction.