18 manifold on 15-17 S550 Mustangs

[Tommy Gun]

So I bought an 18 manifold a few weeks ago when they were going cheap, now hard to get one at all. Lol

Been trying to find some graphs w numbers, but can’t find them. Been hearing pretty steady people saying a 30 HP increase which is great for just an intake change. Only graph I’ve seen is said to be the worse yet at 10-15 HP....tune was by Lund so I believe it. :look:

Some are keeping the IMRC and some are doing a delete and locking them open. I opted to lock them open w some MMR billet pieces.

Similar to these, but that is a generic pic. http://www.modularmotorsportsracing.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=896

Another change is the throttle body is angled up slightly so have to adjust the intake tube on some aftermarket kits.

The biggest thing that got me was that the engine cover for the 15-17 doesn’t fit the 18, so you see all the ugly stuff. :(

So I set out to make it work if possible. I’m getting real close and it looks like it will work fine...just a couple more things to fabricate.

Pics on my phone so going to try and load them here....

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[Tommy Gun]

Orange / black part is the engine cover, gray part is the manifold.


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Parts in the way :look:


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Figuring new attachment points.

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Cutting parts off manifold that I’m no longer going to use. Part of IMRC


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Won’t know if the front needs trimming till I install the throttle body.

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Starting holes for new attachment points.

18 manifold attachment holes are 1/4” too low and 3/4” too close to centerline each side.

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[Tommy Gun]

IMRC lockouts

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Part cut off manifold.

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[68fastback]

Interesting project! :wtg: Hope it works well!

I'm thinking just the manifold might be only 15.
At Woodward last summer I thought FRPP was saying 30-35 but that was upgraded manifold and larger TB (possibly improved heads too -- I forget).

'15-17 are gen-2 Coyotes; '18 is a gen-3 (slightly larger bore, strengthened block, other tweaks).

[Tommy Gun]

Found a couple graphs.


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[68fastback]

Makes sense: 23 w/ported '18 manifold, JLT intake and tune.

Is the top graph similar mods or just a manifold swap? You can see more breathing at the top end for sure.

[Tommy Gun]

Been hard to find simple mods (intake,tune) and a simple intake swap graphs.

[Tommy Gun]

Pieces I’ve been working on to hold attachment rubber.


HDPE plastic, super tough, heat resistant. (Cutting board lol)


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[68fastback]

I can appreciate ...esp since you have to mod it like that.

[Tommy Gun]

On the back of the engine cover are these nubs built in, these get pushed into the rubber pieces above and hold it in place. Easy to remove too.

I’m just relocating where the rubber pieces sit so the cover can still be used.

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There are 4 total


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[onecrazydog]

Cool!!

[68fastback]

:wtg:

[Tommy Gun]

So everything worked out. :wtg:

Except sideways phone pics. :(



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These two pics show the nub to rubber connection from underneath.

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All snapped together. Now off to get ported...


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[Tommy Gun]

Forgot to show the 1/4” attachment bolts


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[onecrazydog]

Nice work!!

[Tommy Gun]

:grin:


Wish I could glue or epoxy the plastic pieces to the manifold, but the pieces are HPDE and I think the manifold is also. Both a very slippery plastic and really hard to glue w normal practices.

[68fastback]

That looks really great, Bill!! :wtg: Nice work!

[Alloy Dave]

:grin:


Wish I could glue or epoxy the plastic pieces to the manifold, but the pieces are HPDE and I think the manifold is also. Both a very slippery plastic and really hard to glue w normal practices.
You should have made everything out of wood, then glue works fine.

[Alloy Dave]

:haha:

[Alloy Dave]

good job though!

[Alloy Dave]

I got 4 posts on this thread! NICE.

[Tommy Gun]

:nonono:

[Joe G]

Cool. :wtg:

[Tommy Gun]

Got my manifold back today from being ported. :wtg:

[68fastback]

Sweet! Hope it helps, Bill! :wtg:

[onecrazydog]

Got my manifold back today from being ported. :wtg:

Pics oidnh...

[68fastback]

Bill, what was ported on '18 manifold? ...to accept larger TB?

Curious b/c porting the runners (more runner volume) w/o porting head/interface would seem unnecessary.

...or did you put the '18 manifold on and sent the original out for porting?

I'm confused -lol

[Tommy Gun]

2018 manifold ported.

Cleaned up TB intake area big time , much different. Ported intake runners and smoothed IMRC valve areas.

Claimed I’ve seen for JUST porting is 10-15 hp.

Claims from putting a ‘18 on a ‘15-‘17 have been around 30 hp

So at the top end w Port and manifold , I’ve seen 30-40 hp gains.

[68fastback]

Ah, okay ...cool!

That's a huge gain on an NA motor :wtg:

[Tommy Gun]

Yeah, we’ll see how true when I get it dynoed. Lol

I’d like to see a 30 rwhp gain, more even better.

[68fastback]

Hope so ...will be cool to see curves/shape ...where the gains show most.

[Tommy Gun]

Going to be mainly upper end.

[onecrazydog]

:waiting2:

[68fastback]

Removing the casting marks/defects and smoothing the runners -- especially where they split the air from the plenum into each of the runners -- should give a nice bump in upper-mid to upper rpm. More flow is more potential HP assuming tune is tweaked to dispense fuel consistent with the enhanced flow curve. God bless dynos! ;-)

[Tommy Gun]

Here’s one dyno run I’ve seen. To me, at first it looked like only about a 8 hp gain. But that’s just the peak compared to stock. I’m told since the 2018 runs 1000 rpm “further” , the gain in the upper rpms reached about 50 extra HP. At least that’s how I understood it. Lol




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[68fastback]

Nice! Lost 35 or so at 4200, but picket up 20 or so at 5200 and 50 at 7200 -- nice! :wtg:

[Tommy Gun]

I see it definitely helping at the track, but can’t wrap my head around how it will affect spirited driving around town.

[68fastback]

The major gains are 6500-7500. Might feel a bit more sluggish on the street since the changes (plus and minus) are aligned in HP and Tq so you're likely to feel the Tq loss on the street below 5K.

Just cleaning-up the casting (vs porting) might have helped across the whole range but would not have provided as muchgain at the top (which you want for the track). There's also a runner resonance effect from changing the overall volume of the runners (vs length) but not clear to me whether that (a byproduct of porting removing material) is a gain or loss in this case -- it interacts with so many things. Typically runner volume is an engineered parameter designed to work with the characteristics of the cams and overall flow characteristics.

You haven't eliminated (removed) the IMRC valves themselves (vs just cleaned-up around intake casting) have you? I can tell they're not just disabled in the tune (vs physically removed) b/c disabling them would noticeably choke top end ...but removing them (often done to help top end along with other mods) will hurt low-end Tq because they are designed to dynamically manage effective runner length. If they're not removed then the low end loss is more directly a function of the tradeoff of the porting favoring the top.

[Tommy Gun]

The IMRC valves are still intact, but cleaned up...and locked open.

Will be disabled in the tune.


“If” I end up putting this on the car and having it tuned, I’m sure the gains will be for the track.


The “if” is because I’m not sure I’m tracking the car anymore and/or doing any other mods to the car...verses just keeping it fun for the street.

Wishing somewhat I never started this venture. Sounded great at $300 for a manifold that made more power.

Didn’t figure it all the way through that with fitting the engine cover, porting, install and tune it went to almost $1000.

Right now I can get most of my money back out of it.



....on the other hand it would be nice to have at the track if I go again. LOL

Undecided. :banghead:

[68fastback]

I can appreciate where you're coming from ...sort of a catch-22.

[Joe G]

The IMRC valves are still intact, but cleaned up...and locked open.

Will be disabled in the tune.


“If” I end up putting this on the car and having it tuned, I’m sure the gains will be for the track.


The “if” is because I’m not sure I’m tracking the car anymore and/or doing any other mods to the car...verses just keeping it fun for the street.

Wishing somewhat I never started this venture. Sounded great at $300 for a manifold that made more power.

Didn’t figure it all the way through that with fitting the engine cover, porting, install and tune it went to almost $1000.

Right now I can get most of my money back out of it.



....on the other hand it would be nice to have at the track if I go again. LOL

Undecided. :banghead:

Good thing you're rich. :spend:

[68fastback]

:spitcopy:

[68fastback]

Quick first drive in GT350 -- so far only three comments:

1) OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2) G-Force limits still undetermined and pulls like crazy!
3) engine much smoother than anticipated and the sound is absolutely intoxicating :faint:

...more later/tomorrow :chirp: :frolic:

[Boston Mike]

Quick first drive in GT350 -- so far only three comments:

1) OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2) Knew I should have slipped on a second pair of Depends
3) Where's my carvedilol? :faint:

...more later/tomorrow :chirp: :frolic:

You ok?

[68fastback]

You ok?

Lol!

---

Just got back from 150 miles of backroads! Simply amazing in so many ways. Clutch, trans, linkage, steering, suspension, brakes ...it's just aces all around tho the helper springs on the clutch took some getting used to (they can be removed) but everything is so flawless -- they really put effort in to every detail. I had expected Tq to be low below 4K but it is still very strong down to 2500 and punching it in second at 4000-4200 just hazes the tires but not enough to get squirrely (those Sportt Sport 2s are impressive). Sill could not find it's lateral limits -- when you try it's lie being T-boned ...it just responds NOW and totally stable ...just sets-up instantly. Anyhow, going to grab some grub ....later.

[Alloy Dave]

:waiting:

:pics:

[Tommy Gun]

Good thing you're rich. :spend:




Nope, still sitting on bench.

Cant afford to install it yet. :(

[68fastback]

:waiting:

:pics:

I'll have to remember to take some tomorrow ...more fun driving!

[68fastback]

Lol!

---

Just got back from 150 miles of backroads! Simply amazing in so many ways. Clutch, trans, linkage, steering, suspension, brakes ...it's just aces all around tho the helper springs on the clutch took some getting used to (they can be removed) but everything is so flawless -- they really put effort in to every detail. I had expected Tq to be low below 4K but it is still very strong down to 2500 and punching it in second at 4000-4200 just hazes the tires but not enough to get squirrely (those Sportt Sport 2s are impressive). Sill could not find it's lateral limits -- when you try it's lie being T-boned ...it just responds NOW and totally stable ...just sets-up instantly. Anyhow, going to grab some grub ....later.

90-100 more miles today -- what an awesome toy!! Only weird thing is the counter-sprung clutch that makes it very easy to 'mat' so not encouraged to mess with the synchros (which are flawless!) ...not suitable for footwear with nubs on the sole because they can 'catch' on the racing style clutch pedal's three horizontal friction bars. Wore smother soles today and no such issues. The shifter is super short throw and just sninck-snicks from gear to gear. The gate is superbly well designed (for a change! -lol) and the linkage is also flawless ...all so amazingly precise. Played with suspension settings today ...normal is awesome and in sport it lands like a friggin' cat with zero 'bob' -- it just sets; period -- even if you get it a tad airborne and drop into dip -impressive ...the suspension is magical -- I don't think you could bottom it out unless you dropped it from a crane and even then I'm not so sure. :rofl3:

The firmest steering setting would probably be nice for the track but I found normal to be ideal in the twisties effort-wise ('comfort' seems useless on a GT350, but I guess might be handy if you do a lot of parallel parking or are a lazy 90# weakling -lol).

The 5.2 'music' is just sublime. "Normal" 'barks' to life commandingly and is intoxicating but not too loud. "Sport" is like sitting in the orchestra ...loud but still smooth with a biting edge and more 'burbly' on trailing throttle -- a delight. It's clear Ford spent some time on all of this because I'm rather critical (lol) and I can't say I would change anything except possibly removing the counter-springs from the clutch pedal. Then again, with the right shoes (today) and, once you get used to it, it works quite nicely with zero fatique even when doing lots of rowing on the backroads. I had mentioned yesterday it has Michelin Pilot Sport 2s but it actually has Michelin Pilot Super Sports ...the R has the 2s.

The 5.4 is truly a spectacular engine. Way smoother than I expected and the torque is way more than I expected at the lower end (2K-4K) -- above 4K it just screams to 7500 so fast it's hard to believe ...it just pulls so strong (owner didn't want me taking it to 8250 just yet). Imo, this NA motor will badly embarass a stock '07-9 GT500 (if there are any -lol) and this vanilla GT350 will run circles around a bone stock GT500 on the track -- not even close. Cna only imagine what the R must be like :faint: Like Probst said: don't drive the R first b/c you will have to have one. But, for the backroads the vanilla GT350 was all I could ever ask for.

Can't wait to see what Ford cooks up with the upcoming GT500. If it's a GT350 on GT500 steroids it will be a very special ride indeed!

Oh, here's a pic. Didn't spend time taking a lot of pics and never listened to any music (except the motor) ...driving was just too much fun to let anything else intrude much :chirp:

http://stangsunited.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22675&d=1526085216

[Alloy Dave]

Nice! Any wheel hop? lol

[68fastback]

Nice! Any wheel hop? lol

Lol ...didn't try out launch control, but I think wheel hop is a thing of the past with Magnaride.

It's hard to describe how good this car is.

---


Forgot to mention: got 17.9 mpg for 242 miles bombing around the backroads with two cold starts and four 30-60 minute stops. On his way home (about 107 miles) he got 23.9 mpg ...identical to what he got coming here -- impressive for a beast w/ only 1200 miles on it ...not even broken in! He was intentionally driving mellow (75-80) going home to see what mileage he might get. I'd bet it will eventually get 25+ fully broken in ...way more than EPA highway. It's EPA rating is only 14/21!

Then again on long runs down to the grandkids, I get up to 7 mpg more than EPA highway rating with the Fusion (35 vs 28) if keeping it mellow at around 75 ...that drops to +5 (33 mpg) at 80-85. Can't complain!

[Joe G]

Nice write up Danny!! :wtg: :chirp:

[68fastback]

:tiphat2: thanks, Joe -- it was a blast! Can't wait until next session ;-)

[Alloy Dave]

:tiphat2: thanks, Joe -- it was a blast! Can't wait until next century ;-)
:nonono:

[68fastback]

:spitcopy:

:boink: ;-)

[onecrazydog]

Lol!

---

Just got back from 150 miles of backroads! Simply amazing in so many ways. Clutch, trans, linkage, steering, suspension, brakes ...it's just aces all around tho the helper springs on the clutch took some getting used to (they can be removed) but everything is so flawless -- they really put effort in to every detail. I had expected Tq to be low below 4K but it is still very strong down to 2500 and punching it in second at 4000-4200 just hazes the tires but not enough to get squirrely (those Sportt Sport 2s are impressive). Sill could not find it's lateral limits -- when you try it's lie being T-boned ...it just responds NOW and totally stable ...just sets-up instantly. Anyhow, going to grab some grub ....later.

Cool!!

[Tommy Gun]

Just to update, ended up selling this manifold.

Main reason was everyone around here wanted $400 just to tune this $300 manifold. :nonono:

.

[68fastback]

Lol!

---

Just got back from 150 miles of backroads! Simply amazing in so many ways. Clutch, trans, linkage, steering, suspension, brakes ...it's just aces all around tho the helper springs on the clutch took some getting used to (they can be removed) but everything is so flawless -- they really put effort in to every detail. I had expected Tq to be low below 4K but it is still very strong down to 2500 and punching it in second at 4000-4200 just hazes the tires but not enough to get squirrely (those Sportt Sport 2s are impressive). Sill could not find it's lateral limits -- when you try it's lie being T-boned ...it just responds NOW and totally stable ...just sets-up instantly. Anyhow, going to grab some grub ....later.


Cool!!

Yeah, that was last May. Steeda clutch return spring was installed soon after which made the pedal MUCH more linear. I've since had another +/- 250 miles of fun-road time last summer & fall.. His is an '18 vanilla -- the '19 is even better b/c it already has gotten the 2020 GT500's gen-2 EPAS and revised front lower arm geometry (among other thins like the Cup-2 tires, revised spoiler,...).

Hope to spend a couple more days with his '18 later this month ...such a rush ;-)