Chevy engine questions

[Alloy Dave]

If anyone on here knows much about Chevy engines please post up and I'll email or call you....I have some questions about my '69 Camaro...considering a crate engine and some of the new terminology and brands are confusing to me. Actually some questions may not need specific Chevy knowledge...as the brands are manufacturer-independent. For example, back in the day Federal Mogul or Clevite were the brands to use for rod/main bearings...now there are King brand I've never heard of.

Any help appreciated...I have more questions but that is one example.

[Boston Mike]

If anyone on here knows much about Chevy engines please post up and I'll email or call you....I have some questions about my '69 Camaro...considering a crate engine and some of the new terminology and brands are confusing to me. Actually some questions may not need specific Chevy knowledge...as the brands are manufacturer-independent. For example, back in the day Federal Mogul or Clevite were the brands to use for rod/main bearings...now there are King brand I've never heard of.

Any help appreciated...I have more questions but that is one example.

I have a friend here locally who is doing a resto mod on his.........................I could connect you with him (funny enough, he used to be a Shelby guy too). He has gone from Shelby to Viper to a 60 something Camaro..................

[tekheavy]

I have a friend here locally who is doing a resto mod on his.........................I could connect you with him (funny enough, he used to be a Shelby guy too). He has gone from Shelby to Viper to a 60 something Camaro..................

Everybody eventually grows up. :popcorn:

[Shelby-Don]

Everybody eventually grows up. :popcorn:

NO moderator for you :boink:

[tekheavy]

:tiptoe:

[onecrazydog]

What engine is in it now? And pics or it didn't happen...

[onecrazydog]

. He has gone from Shelby to Viper to a 60 something Camaro..................

Some people like to go backwards...

[Tommy Gun]

NO moderator for you :boink:


Yep, just took him of the list.

[Tommy Gun]

What engine is in it now? And pics or it didn't happen...


305 :nonono:

[Tommy Gun]

If anyone on here knows much about Chevy engines please post up and I'll email or call you....I have some questions about my '69 Camaro...considering a crate engine and some of the new terminology and brands are confusing to me. Actually some questions may not need specific Chevy knowledge...as the brands are manufacturer-independent. For example, back in the day Federal Mogul or Clevite were the brands to use for rod/main bearings...now there are King brand I've never heard of.

Any help appreciated...I have more questions but that is one example.


Perhaps on a Chevy or Chevy build forum you could look up who are the main builders and look at what products they use in their builds to give you an idea.

[onecrazydog]

305 :nonono:


Scrap metal... A 350 could have been built into a 383...

Yup crate motor...

[onecrazydog]

https://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/ls7

23725

[tekheavy]

Yep, just took him of the list.

:hey2:

[tekheavy]

List of all Chevy crate engines.

https://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines

[Highwayman]

:sneaking: shouldn't this be moved to the Jokes thread???

[Tommy Gun]

:sneaking: shouldn't this be moved to the Jokes thread???


Looks like Tek brought it off topic. :nonono:

[tekheavy]

:wasntme:

[Tommy Gun]

What engine is in it now? And pics or it didn't happen...


305 :nonono:



I think it may be a 302, not 305.

I know what carb is on it though. :look:

.

[Alloy Dave]

What engine is in it now? And pics or it didn't happen...
I've posted pics before dufus... currently 302 cid

23730

[68fastback]

Yup ...I think all '67-69 Z28s were 302-DZs back then ...no Chevy 305s until years later, I beleive. I think the 302 DZ used the 327's 4" bore block with the 3" stroke crank from the 283, so they could get homologation in the TransAm which limited displacement to either 302 or 305 (I forget).

Ford had a 4" bore x 3" stroke 302 also (Ford's 289 was 4" bore x 2.87" stroke, as I recall) and both Chevy and Ford's 4x3 302s dueled it out in the now legendary TransAm battles, several of which I was at in '69 and '70 -- simply awesome racing!! It was all-out racing the likes of which we have not seen since: full-bodied cars modified for racing by tweaking everything they could to go as fast and quick as possible and on some of the most challenging tracks (before the nanny state made them all get 'improved' -doh) and with no weight or breathing penalty crap -- just great heads up 302NA racing with a very basic set of rules.

Dave, what I'm not clear on is if all '67-69 Z28s got the DZ engine build. If I recall your engine is a later(?) production 302 (not a DZ build which got some tweaks) and your '69 is not an original Z28. Don't get me wrong, it's a super cool ride anyway, but I mention this because in our email chats over the years, and most recently, those are the assumptions I used for any recommendations I made re going EFI crate. My recommendations would be nearly 100% opposite and resto-focused if it were a '69 Z28 DZ with original paint.

As I was thinking through things a couple weeks ago I kept asking what would I do for my 68 fastback. It was not Boss 302 ('69/'70) or Shelby GT500 but the engine was original to the car (still is ...it's in a backyard in Florida, last I heard) but it's far less desirable than a Boss 302 or Shelby GT500 so I would not hesitate to hot-rod that original 390 engine or, even better, replace it with an EFI BB crate. If it were an original numbers-matching Boss 302 or Shelby GT500 it would be a whole 'nother story.

I mention the above since I never stated the above assumptions in our discussions b/c I assumed they are correct based on what I recalled about your car/engine, but wanted to mention it now just to be sure (and in case they are not correct).

I any event and whatever way you go it will be an exciting ...with lots of pix too, I hope ;-)

[Alloy Dave]

Yup ...I think all '67-69 Z28s were 302-DZs back then ...no Chevy 305s until years later, I beleive. I think the 302 DZ used the 327's 4" bore block with the 3" stroke crank from the 283, so they could get homologation in the TransAm which limited displacement to either 302 or 305 (I forget).

Ford had a 4" bore x 3" stroke 302 also (Ford's 289 was 4" bore x 2.87" stroke, as I recall) and both Chevy and Ford's 4x3 302s dueled it out in the now legendary TransAm battles, several of which I was at in '69 and '70 -- simply awesome racing!! It was all-out racing the likes of which we have not seen since: full-bodied cars modified for racing by tweaking everything they could to go as fast and quick as possible and on some of the most challenging tracks (before the nanny state made them all get 'improved' -doh) and with no weight or breathing penalty crap -- just great heads up 302NA racing with a very basic set of rules.

Dave, what I'm not clear on is if all '67-69 Z28s got the DZ engine build. If I recall your engine is a later(?) production 302 (not a DZ build which got some tweaks) and your '69 is not an original Z28. Don't get me wrong, it's a super cool ride anyway, but I mention this because in our email chats over the years, and most recently, those are the assumptions I used for any recommendations I made re going EFI crate. My recommendations would be nearly 100% opposite and resto-focused if it were a '69 Z28 DZ with original paint.

As I was thinking through things a couple weeks ago I kept asking what would I do for my 68 fastback. It was not Boss 302 ('69/'70) or Shelby GT500 but the engine was original to the car (still is ...it's in a backyard in Florida, last I heard) but it's far less desirable than a Boss 302 or Shelby GT500 so I would not hesitate to hot-rod that original 390 engine or, even better, replace it with an EFI BB crate. If it were an original numbers-matching Boss 302 or Shelby GT500 it would be a whole 'nother story.

I mention the above since I never stated the above assumptions in our discussions b/c I assumed they are correct based on what I recalled about your car/engine, but wanted to mention it now just to be sure (and in case they are not correct).

I any event and whatever way you go it will be an exciting ...with lots of pix too, I hope ;-)

RE: Homologation - limited to 305.

Mine is a clone, not a real Z. I bought a rolling chassis with no engine...I THINK it was originally an SS396 car as evidenced by the way the heater hoses come out of the heater box on the firewall...it's different for a BB than a SB Chevy. Also, the original crossmember (which is no longer in the car) had an angled cut on one corner...another BB indication. I bought the DZ engine separately and installed it.

ALL 67-69 Z28s got 302 engines, but only the '69s were DZ coded. The 67-68 engines had 2-bolt mains and were not nearly as desirable. All DZ engines received special treatment such as shot-peened rods, special pistons with the rings much higher on the piston than other small blocks, full floating wrist pins held in by clips, magnafluxed and tufftrided forged steel crankshafts, deeper groove pulleys to prevent belts coming off at high RPMs, an 800 cfm vacuum secondary Holley carburetor, aluminum bell housing, a ducted hood with a rubber seal was an option that could only be delivered in the trunk, and the same with exhaust headers. There was also a JL-8 4-wheel disc brake option that was very rare. And then there was available over-the-counter only, a very rare 2x4 barrel cross ram setup that you had to take home and install yourself...I've seen one in person and they are impressive to look at but are completely non-streetable.

There are a number of other special items the Z28s got also, such as an 8,000 RPM tach and so on.

Cowl induction option
23731

Rare cross ram parts department item (note in the last pic the offset oval opening for the hood to seal on
23732 23733 23734 23735

JL8 4wheel disk
23736

As for my car...I'm set on carbureted to keep the "old style" feel of the car. I've got it narrowed down to about 3-4 engines and met with an installer today. I have some technical things to sort out and think through and some of the ignition stuff is new to me since I've only worked with old style Unilites and point-type distributors...today everything is magnetic trigger and capacitive discharge.

Stay tuned...I'll start a thread when I know more.

[68fastback]

So you bought a full-roller (with body) sans 396, not just a rolling chassis, bought the 302 DZ (a vintage 320 DZ?) separately and put it in. If it's an actual DZ why not restore it? ...they are great engines and pretty rare! I remember you talking about wanting more power -- about 450HP. Even if it's really hi-miles it can be restored and/or mod'd for more power ...the SBCs can easily displace more.

Dave, just curious to get your thinking on what's important to you and how that's steering your intentions. If you really want to keep the vintage feel, then I can totally see going carb'd (with upgraded ignition, etc) so then why not stick with the 302 DZ? I know you now have the logic in your head of what path you'd like and why ;-) so how about uncorking some of that project vision for us ...regardless of how you ultimately get there or navigate the eventual course.

[The Bone]

If you want to rebuild the motor you have you could install a nasty cam, bore it out shorten the rods ,fix the valve train with roller rockers and ARP bolts for everything and your car would be nice. Just don't go to crazy so it will be reliable. Stay away from race gas motors.
As for crate engines with all the electronic stuff I would stick with a GM part. They sell a complete kit with all the wiring and computers to do the swap. You just have to decide where to put them. Clevite and Federal Mogal are great brands for bearings. Total seal is a good brand for piston rings. Get pistons with a coating on the skirt to prevent drag in the cylinder. You can get different depth pistons. There are a lot of things you can do to a naturally aspirated motor make your head spin.

If your car was a 396, why not go find one of those?

[Alloy Dave]

Don't like big blocks, not enough RPM for me...I had a '69 Chevelle with a 396 and just didn't like it. I don't want a bunch of electronics Art...staying old school. GM doesn't make anything I like in the power range I want unless you go to extreme cubic inches.

Dan, I considered restoring/rebuilding the 302, but it would be quite expensive and either A) It would not produce the power/torque I want unless I radically change it or B) If I did radically change it, it would essentially not be a DZ engine. I may have it rebuilt and sell it, or maybe I just bag it in a crate in the garage for awhile and get connected with a Camaro club to see if any enthusiast would like to buy it to restore their original '69Z. I no longer have the original "snowflake" manifold....some of the bolt holes were stripped and some of the casting nibs were broken off...so I sold it years ago. I never did have the original carb. The original heads cracked, so I already have Dart heads on it. In stock form, the 302 was rated at 290 HP but dyno testing in those days showed it to make closer to 350...but all in the upper RPM range....the engine does not "wake up" until about 3,200 RPM. If I did really "restore" the 302, I would probably not want to drive it much...to preserve it. I loved driving it for all those years, but I think it's time for a change. Maybe someday it can go back in the car.

Dan you had asked about the original color of my car...it was a "52 52" paint code, which is Garnet Red...a dark, almost purple red that I never liked. My intention is that I want a weekend street car that will probably only see 1,000 miles/year, with a lopey idle, and some much improved torque and HP. I've decided on a 383. I know this engine will not rev as high as what I was used to, but the torque will be so much better. I want the engine to look nice, but not be a trailer queen...I want more of an "industrial" look to it....so not finalized on dress-up yet but thinking polished aluminum stuff or maybe gray crinkle.

I'm hesitant to share much of this on this forum because I know how people can get on here sometimes with a lot of negative feedback. I have a budget I'm trying to stick to and won't simply spend for the best of everything...some of the fancy pulley systems are $2,000 alone!

My choices now are narrowed down to 2 general directions:

1) A "commoditized" engine where they don't tell you the brand name of many of the parts....here is an example. Problems here are many, including lack of "personality" without changing a bunch of stuff (for example, if it has a chrome timing cover and I want polished aluminum, then the harmonic balancer may need to be removed along with water pump etc. to change it...a lot of work and extra cost), they won't allow you to choose paint color or valve cover style, they use carbs with manual choke, the HEI distributor will only fit in my car if I take a hammer and whack a dent in the firewall...so I'd probably want to change that out...and so on. THe upside is that this is a much less expensive engine.

https://www.jegs.com/i/ATK-Engines/059/HP94C/10002/-1




2) A "custom" built engine (actually should call it "personalized", not customized) where they use much higher quality internals such as steel crank, I-beam rods, etc. Better intake manifold, electric choke, and they include dyno test sheet and digital printout. I like the cam selection better, and the power level is up slightly from the others. They will allow me to choose block paint color, and I can have special items like dress up kit drop-shipped and they will install during the build. They are also a "speed shop" that knows engines...it will be built in their shop by their guys...whereas with the above setup I'm guessing they are built in more of a factory setup with less highly trained people.

https://prestigemoto.com/383-chevy-stroker-crate-engine-450.html

[68fastback]

You're right that neither will rev like the DZ ...from the recommended converter stall and power band numbers these crates don't wake up until 2800 and start nosing over at 5800. If you went more aggressive roller cam and Vic Jr intake on your DZ with forged RA it could make similar power and would rev to 7000+ ...very lopey idle for sure (do you want A/C?) but would run like an animal and smell like the 60s. You can get a 383 or a big block to rev like that but not for $5K. If you were changing out the RA in the DZ might as well bore as much as possible -- a 350 is 4 x 3.48 but you could go 0.150 over on a 350 or on the DZ 302 and just a modest stroke increase to, say, 3.25. Would still rev very well. There's room for more stroke and you get a 383 to rev to over 7000 too but more expensive RA is needed. You could also build off a 400 SBC crate (if you cna find one) -- block is stout (vs the DZ) but they are hard to find and are externally balanced, so really high revs make them prone to premature failure, but you would not be looking to go much over 6K, I assume, anyway. Also, you may find you want to swap out your DZ friendly 4.11s for something more crate-friendly if you go $5K-ish crate vs more well 'polished'.

Revs cost and HP costs and both cost even more.

Revs are intoxicating. Driving my buds 5.2fpc now for around 500 miles mostly on backroads, it pulls like crazy to redline even though your brain is trying to make you shift between 6K and 7K based on the rpm 'pitch' ...my '74 Capri was like that too ...revved to 8K no problem and though half the HP of the 5.2fpc it was still a hoot to drive ...was hard not rev it to 8K at least once on the drive home from work every day! ;-)

[twobjshelbys]

I'd get a Nascar engine

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/question588.htm

[68fastback]

Used NASCA engines can be a great value! Just don't plan on them running any vacuum accessories (like brake boosters -lol) or idling well (or at all -lol) with the AC clutch engaged. A fellow I met used to run Roush-Yates 'retired' units in his '60s Falcon and it was really quick ...about 850 HP at 8500 rpm, as I recall.

[onecrazydog]

2) A "custom" built engine (actually should call it "personalized", not customized) where they use much higher quality internals such as steel crank, I-beam rods, etc. Better intake manifold, electric choke, and they include dyno test sheet and digital printout. I like the cam selection better, and the power level is up slightly from the others. They will allow me to choose block paint color, and I can have special items like dress up kit drop-shipped and they will install during the build. They are also a "speed shop" that knows engines...it will be built in their shop by their guys...whereas with the above setup I'm guessing they are built in more of a factory setup with less highly trained people.

https://prestigemoto.com/383-chevy-stroker-crate-engine-450.html


Nice, that parts list is close to what the 383 in my vette was... I had a solid lift cam though... Turbo 400 with a stage three shift kit...


I would go with your second choice!! Would match your car good!!

[The Bone]

I am not a fan of shiny bits on motors. You always have to remove the balancer to remove the timing cover. Most of the time you cant see then anyway. Paint and a steel cover is the best IMOP. GM does offer a crate engine without all the electronics. https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/category/SB.html
I would go throttle body instead of a carb because it's much easier to to get max power. Holly makes a kit that looks nice. I would like that for my 68. Also they make a shorter HEI distributor that should fit in your car from MSD

[Tommy Gun]

That car w a 400-450hp motor would feel awesome. Would make it more enjoyable to drive and would bump your interest in driving it again more often. :wtg:

[Tommy Gun]

I'm hesitant to share much of this on this forum because I know how people can get on here sometimes with a lot of negative feedback......



I would just ignore Highwayman :look:









:tiptoe:

.

[68fastback]

:lol:

[Alloy Dave]

I am not a fan of shiny bits on motors. You always have to remove the balancer to remove the timing cover. Most of the time you cant see then anyway. Paint and a steel cover is the best IMOP. GM does offer a crate engine without all the electronics. https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/category/SB.html
I would go throttle body instead of a carb because it's much easier to to get max power. Holly makes a kit that looks nice. I would like that for my 68. Also they make a shorter HEI distributor that should fit in your car from MSD
Every engine in that link is the newer style engine with the center valve cover bolts...I don't want that in my car.

I'm actually researching a 3rd option now... :hide:

Dan, thanks for the ideas...I'll ask a few more questions. No I don't want/need A/C. I don't mind spending more than $5k on the engine....$5k won't get me what I want once you add in all the "goodies".

I think I recall reading that the 400 small blocks have very thin cylinder walls and therefore are more prone to overheating and can't be bored more if necessary? I think I'll stay away from that option. But if I make that many modifications to the existing engine...why not just start from scratch with more displacement?

When you say a "more aggressive roller cam", what do you mean? More aggressive than what? Than the original engine? Than the crate motor I am spec'ing? You mean longer duration? Higher lift? Both?

[Alloy Dave]

Nice, that parts list is close to what the 383 in my vette was... I had a solid lift cam though... Turbo 400 with a stage three shift kit...


I would go with your second choice!! Would match your car good!! THanks! I may have option 3 soon.... wait for it.

[Alloy Dave]

That car w a 400-450hp motor would feel awesome. Would make it more enjoyable for me to drive next time I visit and would bump my interest in driving it again more often. :wtg:
:nonono:

[68fastback]

Every engine in that link is the newer style engine with the center valve cover bolts...I don't want that in my car.

I'm actually researching a 3rd option now... :hide:

Dan, thanks for the ideas...I'll ask a few more questions. No I don't want/need A/C. I don't mind spending more than $5k on the engine....$5k won't get me what I want once you add in all the "goodies".

I think I recall reading that the 400 small blocks have very thin cylinder walls and therefore are more prone to overheating and can't be bored more if necessary? I think I'll stay away from that option. But if I make that many modifications to the existing engine...why not just start from scratch with more displacement?

When you say a "more aggressive roller cam", what do you mean? More aggressive than what? Than the original engine? Than the crate motor I am spec'ing? You mean longer duration? Higher lift? Both?

I think the 400cid SBCs are thin-walled b/c they are already overbored ...but that's okay if on the non-stressed/sides of the cylinder ...they're still plenty strong.

A more aggressive cam can make more power ...mostly on the top end ...more overlap and more overall cam timing. Such cams work better with roller rockers that can take the higher revs and thereby exploit the cam's better breathing characteristics and big over-square ration of the 302.

One reason the DZ (and Ford's Boss 302 too) was so strong is that the 4" bore permitted lots of valve area for the modest 302cid displacement so even with a streetable DZ cam they breathed well so could be set-up to rev high -- in fact they needed to rev high to make good use of the combination. By comparison, a 383 crate will make more power and torque lower-down but the longer stroke will tend to make it nose-over earlier than the 302 because, for similar cam timing, it will run out of flow 28% earlier in the rev range. This is why a DZ or Boss, geared properly, will run about as strong as a milder-cammed 383 stroker ...the 302 will run out of gears sooner b/c higher ratio rear is needed to extract performance at top end of it's higher rev range but it can also rev higher -- a well-prepped DZ will be less streetable than a 383 stroker crate because the DZ would need a more aggressive cam to match the additional, but rev limited, power of the 383's flow-limited displacement. A better prepped 383 can make more power AND rev as high as a DZ but high-revving longer-stroke motors just cost more because the higher stresses of the longer stroke require more expensive components to contain those stresses.

If you're not planning install AC (an idle issue with an aggressive cam) and don't mind possibly having to use an electric vacuum pump to assure adequate brake booster vacuum, then you can go with a more aggressive cam and higher lift roller rockers in the DZ and make 383 stroker power in the smaller engine with the fun of the higher revs and exploiting the big 4.11s out back. A good speed shop can tell how aggressive of a roller cam will work for an SBC like the DZ and still be adequately streetable (i.e. not so balky that you won't enjoy it just cruising around town). A more aggressive cam will be more lopey at idle too and will not tolerate heavy loading at idle (like AC compressor) ...it's all a set of tradeoffs depending on what the goal is. If you stay a notch under 'race' you can probably make a solid 400+HP with the DZ and maybe not even need a vacuum booster for the brakes. A nice medium-riser (hood clearance limited) will also work with a more aggressive cam to extract the upper power band too. I'm sure there's a VicJr for the 302 SBC that will work well with a bit more aggressive solid-lifter roller cam that will really extract power in the upper end and still permit street-ability for fun driving tho not as streetable as a stock DZ. The Dart heads you already have might work fine too with such a combo if they are already exploiting the 4" bore of the 302 with bigger valves (I assume they are). Might just require upgraded valve springs, the right ratio aftermarket roller rockers, and lighter pushrods to complement a more aggressive and higher-lift cam, put you squarely in the 425-450 HP range and really uncork that over-square motor.

If you were really rebuilding the DZ, it might make sense to go 0.150 over on the bore and have the Dart heads tweaked to exploit the additional bore or go with other heads that do. If the shop you use feels the crank isn't up to high-revs and 450HP, then it might make sense to add a little additional stroke (the breathing is already there) with a new crank. These are the tradeoffs that a good shop familiar with the SBC can explore with you, depending on how much you may be willing to spend and how much power you feel will make it all worthwhile and within how much general driveability you're willing to accept in exchange for the bigger power and fun high-revving nirvana ;-) while still staying below the non-streetability an all-out race motor.

At the other end of the spectrum is a low cost crate motor that makes similar power and idles smooth but noses over by 6K vs a tweaked DZ's 7200-7500 (or more). It's all a matter of what's important to you -- in terms of the character you want in the beast. If you plan more longer trips, you can live with the crate easier (with longer gearing for the earlier/broader torque) but a 450HP DZ with the 4.11s and wanting to always be above 3500-4K might not be so pleasant on the interstate (along with low mpg). If it will be mostly around town with occasional short trips mostly on secondary roads, then a more high-strung, high-HP DZ could be loads of hi-po fun. All depends on the poison of choice. ;-)

[onecrazydog]

I still like option 2

[Tommy Gun]

:nonono:



:ohsnap:

[The Bone]

Never noticed the bolts in the center of the valve covers ya that looks stupid.
You could build a turbo motor. They are so advanced with turbos there is almost no lag time.
Like Dan said if you go with a larger cam you will lose engine vacuum so you may have to get a system that runs from the power steering pump. I have seen that before but it may be expensive. Why not go to a wrecking yard and get a motor from them. Since you are going to do some machine work anyway may be a option for you. if you bring a battery and a starter button you can run a compression test with the motor in the car. They may only want a couple hundred for a motor. I had a machine shop do the motor in my 68. They did a good job. I told them what I wanted and they built me the motor. I had them put the motor together for me. Wasn't that expensive. You can get your own parts or they will get them for you.
Like Dan said a roller cam with roller rockers is the way to go in the valve train.You will need taller valve covers but les drag in the valve train means more power. A good set of heads will also increase power not to mention port matching the intake and exhaust ports to match. Don't go to big on the exhaust because that will rob power. For most guys a 2 1/2 exhaust will work just fine and you may be able to go 3 inch. but not bigger. Ceramic coating on the headers is a must for better exhaust flow. Smooth air in smooth air out better flow. This can get very complicated with flow numbers, cam size, stroke, bore, carb size, compression and type of fuel. That is why I left it to the machine shop to build my motor. I told them what I wanted and they did the rest. Find a guy that builds race engines on the side and they will have knowledge on what you need for parts.

[The Bone]

With that being said maybe all you want is a good block and fill it with good parts.

[Highwayman]

i would just ignore highwayman :look:









:tiptoe:

.

fake news!!!

[Tommy Gun]

:sneaking:

[Alloy Dave]

Thanks Dan, good info. I do realize that if I go with the 383 I'll probably end up changing differential ratio...to either 3:73 or maybe even 3:55. First I want to see what it feels like with the 4:10 gears.

You are right about the highway driving with the 302...even with my .64 OD Tremec I think it turns about 3,100 RPM at 60 MPH. :nonono:

And yes, I did change the speedo gear to get close to proper speedo reading.

[Alloy Dave]

https://shop.whiteperformance.com/SBC-ENGINE-DRESS-UP-KIT-FOR-LONG-WATER-PUMP-INCLUDES-WATER-PUMP-SBC-DRESSKIT-LWP.htm

This seems to be a reasonable price for a pulley system...almost seems too inexpensive since it comes with the P/S pump, water pump, and alternator.

Am I missing something?

[Alloy Dave]

One person suggests an MSD Pro Billet distributor with an MSD 6AL CDI box...about $600 worth of parts yikes! The wiring instructions look pretty complicated also so I'm guessing there would be some additional labor.
https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/distributors/chevrolet/pro-billet/parts/85551
https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/ignition_boxes/street/parts/6425




Another person says a "ready to run" distributor would be fine from MSD...about $300 less expensive mainly since you don't need the CDI box.
https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/distributors/chevrolet/ready_to_run_distributors/parts/8360


One advantage of the first option is that the 6AL box has a built-in rev limiter...but I already have one on my Mallory tach.

I'm thinking I should get vacuum advance for the street, right?

[68fastback]

https://shop.whiteperformance.com/SBC-ENGINE-DRESS-UP-KIT-FOR-LONG-WATER-PUMP-INCLUDES-WATER-PUMP-SBC-DRESSKIT-LWP.htm

This seems to be a reasonable price for a pulley system...almost seems too inexpensive since it comes with the P/S pump, water pump, and alternator.

Am I missing something?

I like that pulley system! Not over the top ...looks sweet!

[onecrazydog]

Thanks Dan, good info. I do realize that if I go with the 383 I'll probably end up changing differential ratio...to either 3:73 or maybe even 3:55. First I want to see what it feels like with the 4:10 gears.

You are right about the highway driving with the 302...even with my .64 OD Tremec I think it turns about 3,100 RPM at 60 MPH. :nonono:

And yes, I did change the speedo gear to get close to proper speedo reading.

383 with 4:10's would be good... I had 4:56 gears behind mine...

[onecrazydog]

One person suggests an MSD Pro Billet distributor with an MSD 6AL CDI box...about $600 worth of parts yikes! The wiring instructions look pretty complicated also so I'm guessing there would be some additional labor.
https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/distributors/chevrolet/pro-billet/parts/85551
https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/ignition_boxes/street/parts/6425




Another person says a "ready to run" distributor would be fine from MSD...about $300 less expensive mainly since you don't need the CDI box.
https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/distributors/chevrolet/ready_to_run_distributors/parts/8360


One advantage of the first option is that the 6AL box has a built-in rev limiter...but I already have one on my Mallory tach.

I'm thinking I should get vacuum advance for the street, right?


Stock chev electronic ignition will work fine for a street car...

[Tommy Gun]

https://shop.whiteperformance.com/SBC-ENGINE-DRESS-UP-KIT-FOR-LONG-WATER-PUMP-INCLUDES-WATER-PUMP-SBC-DRESSKIT-LWP.htm

This seems to be a reasonable price for a pulley system...almost seems too inexpensive since it comes with the P/S pump, water pump, and alternator.

Am I missing something?


Pumps and alternator must be really cheap on a SBC to get chrome ones w pulleys for that price.

[Tommy Gun]

What is your current distributor?

Points? Electronic? Stock?

[Alloy Dave]

Stock chev electronic ignition will work fine for a street car...
What do you mean stock? Do you mean HEI? Can't use that, as you have to bang the he!! out of the firewall and create a dent to put it in...the cap is too large. They do make "skinny" ones in the aftermarket, which is essentially the "ready to run" unit I mentioned.

[Alloy Dave]

What is your current distributor?

Points? Electronic? Stock?Mallory Unilite breakerless. The engine builder says that is not a good option and he recommends upgrading. Originally the car had a mechanical advance dual point...a pain in the ass to set and at the high RPM of the car it wears down the rubbing blocks quickly, so I was always adjusting.

[Alloy Dave]

Which valve cover and why? I don't like the full super shiny chrome look...prefer to have more of a satin or slightly less polished.

The first photo below I like but cleaning around the raised letters would be difficult...I'd probably just remove the covers every couple years and wash in a tank/sink. The second pic is more of an industrial look that I like but they don't have much character. The other issue is finding air cleaners and breathers to match...not every valve cover maker makes a matching air filter. I've included a couple of those also.


https://pitstopusa.com/images/F143931878.jpg

https://media.skipwhiteperformance.com/media/cache/f4/8e/f48e6a5615687290a712d73ca7e78138.jpg

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71y%2BYOW0U5L._SX425_.jpg

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51gFFDX-t-L._SL1001_.jpg


https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61leeSkgOIL._SL1001_.jpg
Natural finish ...the polished finish appears to be almost chrome-like.
https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/120-170_2_540x480.jpg
https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/120-218_1_540x506.jpg

[68fastback]

I like the fist with the last -- nice!

Too bad GM never moved dist up front like Ford did ...no clearance issues and was always so much easier to set the points (back in the day).

I used a CDI system in the '68 with high quality points (just acted as a switch for the CDI since it carried no current), but the 390 was not a high-revving engine (6K) so the points lasted a long time driving the CDI ...at the time the Mallory's fiber-phenolic rubbing block was very durable and just the tiniest bit of Lubriplate on the distrib cam would be good for a hwole year of every day driving. The CDI + Mallory was a true Godsend back then. I realize it might not last as well with a high-revving engine but might be more durable than you think.

Doesn't anyone make a magnetic stator to replace the vacuum advance plate in conjunction with a CDI or other electronic ignition? Magnetic stators have been around for a long time -- both my Quadravan and Camper F250 had that in the distrib and they work flawlessly since it's a non-contact system (doesn't affect vacuum advance/weights system either). Maybe that's considered too old a tech now but it works great so I would think someone might make a retrofit kit like that for old distributors with points for folks who don't want to go full electronic engine controls.

[Alloy Dave]

I like the fist with the last -- nice!

Too bad GM never moved dist up front like Ford did ...no clearance issues and was always so much easier to set the points (back in the day).

I used a CDI system in the '68 with high quality points (just acted as a switch for the CDI since it carried no current), but the 390 was not a high-revving engine (6K) so the points lasted a long time driving the CDI ...at the time the Mallory's fiber-phenolic rubbing block was very durable and just the tiniest bit of Lubriplate on the distrib cam would be good for a hwole year of every day driving. The CDI + Mallory was a true Godsend back then. I realize it might not last as well with a high-revving engine but might be more durable than you think.

Doesn't anyone make a magnetic stator to replace the vacuum advance plate in conjunction with a CDI or other electronic ignition? Magnetic stators have been around for a long time -- both my Quadravan and Camper F250 had that in the distrib and they work flawlessly since it's a non-contact system (doesn't affect vacuum advance/weights system either). Maybe that's considered too old a tech now but it works great so I would think someone might make a retrofit kit like that for old distributors with points for folks who don't want to go full electronic engine controls.
Yes, they are called "ready to run" distributors...which is one of the options for me. I'm not sure it works exactly like you say, but basically the HEI module is built into the distributor.

[68fastback]

Yes, they are called "ready to run" distributors...which is one of the options for me. I'm not sure it works exactly like you say, but basically the HEI module is built into the distributor.

Ah, that makes sense ...electronics are so compact now.

[Tommy Gun]

Ah, that makes sense ...electronics are so compact now.



Yeah, Dave can just get an app to run his spark plugs. :wtg:

[68fastback]

Just keep typing: 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2? :lol:

[onecrazydog]

What do you mean stock? Do you mean HEI? Can't use that, as you have to bang the he!! out of the firewall and create a dent to put it in...the cap is too large. They do make "skinny" ones in the aftermarket, which is essentially the "ready to run" unit I mentioned.

Yes meant stock chevy HEI... Aftermarket ones are good too!!

[onecrazydog]

https://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/41443K/10002/-1


23768

(https://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/41443K/10002/-1)
These could be powder coated a satin silver or grey...

https://kmjperformance.com/sbc-chevy-350-finned-retro-polished-aluminum-tall-valve-covers-w-air-cleaner.html

23769

23770

23771

23772


This is what my 383 looked like in my old vette,

23773

[Tommy Gun]

Quit screwin around and just put this in there!


https://www.steveschmidtracing.com/drag-racing-engines/pro-sportsman-series/635-all-aluminum-9


:look:

[tekheavy]

Quit screwin around and just put this in there!


https://www.steveschmidtracing.com/drag-racing-engines/pro-sportsman-series/635-all-aluminum-9


:look:

34 grand and they charge you extra for a starter and water pump. :nonono:

[68fastback]

Almost 10.4L :faint: but only 1,300HP? ;-)

Dave needs a 8L Pro Stock motor making 2500 HP -- and a whole lot of other mods :rofl3:

[The Bone]

Dave why not just put a Ford motor in there. A 289 / 302 would drop right in. Distributor is on the front of the motor Problem solved.:yes: Ford motors look way better than Chevy motors. :hide:

[68fastback]

:spitcopy:

[Tommy Gun]

Okay, you guys have gotten out of hand. :look:

[Shelby-Don]

Have we sold this Chevy yet and bought a real car ?

[Tommy Gun]

:wow2: :wow2: :wow2: :wow2: :wow2: :wow2: :wow2: :wow2: :wow2:




:wasntme:

.

[tekheavy]

:wow2: :wow2: :wow2: :wow2: :wow2: :wow2: :wow2: :wow2: :wow2:




:wasntme:

.

:iagree:

[Alloy Dave]

OCD I think I like the 3rd engine pic....but not ALL red on the VCs...just the raised areas maybe. Still thinking.

[Alloy Dave]

Wondering about selling my 302DZ engine to make more budget room for the new engine. SOme of the blocks alone are going for nearly $3,000...while others selling for much less...not sure why the wide range...maybe the .030 engines are less desireable? Mine has some decent heads on it too...so someone could part-out the engine and sell a variety of things separately if they wanted. Thoughts?

https://www.ebay.com/bhp/dz-302

[Alloy Dave]

P.S. I paid $1,850 for the entire engine in about 1982. :look:

[onecrazydog]

Ask 2500 for it...

[68fastback]

If you do a search on SOLD units (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=1969+Camaro+Z28+DZ+302+290hp+engine+block&_sacat=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1) (scroll down there), blocks have gone from under $550 and up to $6500 :faint: Maybe there are some castings that are more desirable or maybe it's for high-dollar rotisserie restorations which want to be 100% factory stock.

[Tommy Gun]

:wow2:

[Alloy Dave]

Yes I'm no expert on these...but they only made the DZ blocks for one "model" year. Not sure if there is a date code included in the stamping. There are actually two numbers. One is the casting number, the other is "stamped"...that's the DZ. If one has a date code, and a person wants a block dated just before the date their car was built, they may be willing to pay much more.