F150 Transmission Fluid - No "serviceable" dipstick

[Alloy Dave]

Ok....so I've noticed the past couple days that when I first start the truck and back out of the garage, the trans seems to "slip" slightly. After 30 seconds it seems fine.

I decided I should check the transmission fluid, so I open the hood. Can't find dipstick. Look in manual, and it says to have it checked by dealership. :rant:

Check internet, shows how to do it....see video link below.

https://www.carcarekiosk.com/video/2015_Ford_F-150_XLT_3.5L_V6_Turbo_Crew_Cab_Pickup/transmission_fluid/check_fluid_level

So I get under car, remove belly pan, check fluid...it's low. So now I have to figure out how to add fluid. I find an old hand oil pump, but it has regular oil in it...so I dump the oil into a jug, and spend 15 minutes meticulously cleaning the hand pump. Now I go to my cabinet of fluids and all I have is Mercon V....but this calls for LV....evidently it's low-viscosity and is synthetic. So later today I have to go buy a quart of LV, and then put some in tomorrow using my little hand pump.

What a pain in the ass!

And I see no leak at all....I park in the garage and there is no leakage on the floor. Where is it going? Truck is a 2016, with only 19,000 miles on it.

**** Ford :rant:

25376

[68fastback]

Dave, it might not actually be low depending on how/when it was checked.

I'm wondering about that video... to get an accurate reading auto trans MUST be checked LEVEL, HOT (like after 20+ minutes of highway driving hot), engine IDLING (without having shut the engine off) and in NEUTRAL.

If it's still low, then it's low ...it might actually be okay or it might actually be lower than you saw.

Trans (I assume this is the 10-speed?) should not use any fluid so if no sign of any leaking it really should not have used any ...that said, the symptom does sound like low fluid but these new trans designs do exhibit odd characteristics sometimes (esp 10sp w/5.0, but you have V6). If it's sill under warranty why not let dealer handle. It's not a GT500 :giggle:

I would not feel comfortable trusting a video that dedicates a segment to how to open the hood. :giggle:

Hopefully pump is really clean -- so it won't foul the Mercon LV.

..or you might be able to use a short (1 foot or so) piece of clear plastic hose (HD sells by the foot) to dip into the LV synth fluid and then use your finger like on a pipette to hold/release the fluid ...might have to pinch the lower end with a needle-nose pliers since that fluid is likely very thin.. It will only transfer an ounce or two at a time (depending on the hose size) but easier than having to syphon some out. A small valved plastic ketchup container might also work, space permitting -- works great for disensing distilled battery H2O.

[The Bone]

Dave is the truck still under warranty? Millage is good what about time?

[Alloy Dave]

Dave is the truck still under warranty? Millage is good what about time?Well I bought it in June of 2016...so the 3 year bumper to bumper is up, but the Powertrain warranty is 5/60....so I assume transmission is part of the powertrain?

[Alloy Dave]

Dave, it might not actually be low depending on how/when it was checked.

I'm wondering about that video... to get an accurate reading auto trans MUST be checked LEVEL, HOT (like after 20+ minutes of highway driving hot), engine IDLING (without having shut the engine off) and in NEUTRAL.

If it's still low, then it's low ...it might actually be okay or it might actually be lower than you saw.

Trans (I assume this is the 10-speed?) should not use any fluid so if no sign of any leaking it really should not have used any ...that said, the symptom does sound like low fluid but these new trans designs do exhibit odd characteristics sometimes (esp 10sp w/5.0, but you have V6). If it's sill under warranty why not let dealer handle. It's not a GT500 :giggle:

I would not feel comfortable trusting a video that dedicates a segment to how to open the hood. :giggle:

Hopefully pump is really clean -- so it won't foul the Mercon LV.

..or you might be able to use a short (1 foot or so) piece of clear plastic hose (HD sells by the foot) to dip into the LV synth fluid and then use your finger like on a pipette to hold/release the fluid ...might have to pinch the lower end with a needle-nose pliers since that fluid is likely very thin.. It will only transfer an ounce or two at a time (depending on the hose size) but easier than having to syphon some out. A small valved plastic ketchup container might also work, space permitting -- works great for disensing distilled battery H2O.
Definitely was on a flat surface. Definitely warmed up. Fluid is "clean"...just low. The hand pump is meticulously clean. I'm going to call Ford Tuesday (Monday holiday) and ask if it's covered under warranty...should be under powertrain. If so I'll take it in.

[Tommy Gun]

Transit vans are the same way. And just a touch low makes them feel a little slippy when warm.

I’ve added 4-5 ozs in my van already at 11,000 miles. And yes you will never see a drop anywhere, I have no idea where it goes.

[Tommy Gun]

And even though warm, technically you are supposed to have it running when checking. Near impossible unless you have a heat glove because the exhaust is right there on mine.

[68fastback]

Should be part of powertrain but maybe fluids aren't included -- dunno.

Yeah, where does it go? Lol

Is it the 10-speed trans.

Bud down the road here was telling me it occasionally surges (as he called it) and shifts at odd times ...I'm wondering if Ford just isn't filling them sufficiently?

[68fastback]

Oh, wait ...there are two TSBs and what sounds like a class action lawsuit:


Ford has issued at least two technical service bulletins (TSBs) to dealerships concerning how the transmissions shifted. Ford TSB 18-2079 says:

"Some 2017 F-150/Raptor vehicles equipped with a 10R80 automatic transmission built on or before 1-Aug-2017 may exhibit harsh or delayed shifts and/or an illuminated malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) with diagnostic trouble code (DTC) P0711 stored in the transmission control module (TCM)."



Ford technicians were told to reprogram the powertrain control modules, and technicians were also told to advise customers the vehicles are:

“[E]quipped with an adaptive transmission shift strategy which allows the vehicle’s computer to learn the transmission’s unique parameters and improve shift quality. When the adaptive strategy is reset, the computer will begin a re-learning process. This re-learning process may result in firmer than normal upshifts and downshifts for several days.”



TSB 18-2274 was issued for 2018 F-150 vehicles "equipped with a 2.7L, 3.5L or 5.0L engine and 10R80 automatic transmission and built on or before 15-May 2018 may exhibit harsh/bumpy upshift, downshift and/or engagement concerns." That bulletin also informed technicians to reprogram the powertrain control modules and tell customers about the adaptive transmission shift strategy. According to the 10-speed transmission lawsuit, the “adaptive transmission shift strategy” fails to fix the harsh shifting and other problems associated with the components.

---


More on the lawsuit here:
(https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2019/ford-f-150-10-speed-transmission-lawsuit-harsh-shifting.shtml)

[Tommy Gun]

Transit is a Six-speed SelectShift® automatic with overdrive

[1 Alibi 2]

Trans is part of the drive-train, covered by the 5/60..

[68fastback]

Transit is a Six-speed SelectShift® automatic with overdrive

Ah, okay :tiphat2:

---

Dave, is yours the 6- or 10-speed? I saw somewhere recently a recall on F150s w/ 3.3 V6, automatic and column-mounted shifter.

[Tommy Gun]

Dave’s not here man. :silly:

[Alloy Dave]

Should be part of powertrain but maybe fluids aren't included -- dunno.

Yeah, where does it go? Lol

Is it the 10-speed trans.

Bud down the road here was telling me it occasionally surges (as he called it) and shifts at odd times ...I'm wondering if Ford just isn't filling them sufficiently?
6 speed trans

[Alloy Dave]

I'll post an update when I know more...

wait for it

[Alloy Dave]

As far as my fluid level...if you look at the diagram I posted previously, the fluid is about at the second "A" in the phrase "see service manuAl"

[68fastback]

Wow! That seems pretty low!

[Tommy Gun]

As far as my fluid level...if you look at the diagram I posted previously, the fluid is about at the second "A" in the phrase "see service manuAl"



I don’t read back. :popcorn:

[Alloy Dave]

Called Ford....

Their transmission guy is out until September 23rd. :doh:

I asked the service guy if I was supposed to continue driving it as it may damage it...he said it probably wouldn't but when I asked him to put this in writing he would not. I did get him to at least send me an email stating I called in today for a transmission slippage issue and that they did not have a technician that could fix it until the 23rd.

We are out of town until the 24th...so I'm taking it in the night of the 24th and they will evaluate on the 25th.

:waiting:

[68fastback]

Why not just go to another dealer unless you're not going to drive it much or at all. They all have access to your VIN info and any one of them can handle it.

[Alloy Dave]

Why not just go to another dealer unless you're not going to drive it much or at all. They all have access to your VIN info and any one of them can handle it.
Next closest one has bad reputation. Next after that is in Indy, and they have lots of construction and road closures, trying to avoid. I don’t drive it much.

[68fastback]

I wonder what's actually 'slipping' ...i.e. is it a clutch-pack or is it the torque converter not spooling up enough fluid to fully 'couple' ...I suspect the latter. If so it should not harm anything and may also be doing it a tiny bit at certain other times, e.g. upon shifting, (or even when highway driving) but might be far too subtle to even notice at such times.

Torque converter would be most felt on initial movement too which is what I think you had mentioned. Could test at what point it does it by progressively power-braking which might or might not reveal that. I'm thinking it would also do it more when the fluid is still cold (before it expands a bit) but the viscosity is higher when cold so that might affect it the other way too.

I would not be able to resist doing some experimenting to try to gain insight and maybe figure it out -lol- but that's just me :rofl3:

[Tommy Gun]

Mine did it more when hot.

Adding the 4 ozs made a big difference.

I feel it a touch once in a great while, might need an oz or two more.

About to have a set of tires put on at a buddies shop, may have him try to check it while running. I can’t do that without a lift and a heat resistant glove.

[68fastback]

I can see how a lift and hot glove would make a BIG difference -- that's a lousy location. Almost looks like the design could have used a typical dipstick if they wanted to.

The old C6 trans that used F-type ATF would typically not need fluid for 100K+ miles :rofl3: ...but I'm sure they were a lot less energy efficient too.

[Tommy Gun]

What I find strange is it can be checked running or not. Always thought a trans had pressure, guess not in the pan.

[68fastback]

Yeah, pan not pressurized.
Typically Ford automatics (and I assume most all) must be checked LEVEL, fully HOT, IDLING and in NEUTRAL, immediately after driving to get really accurate fluid level check.

[Tommy Gun]

Idling is the issue with the EcoBeast exhaust less than an inch from the fill plug.

I can fill it w a tube, but getting it off would be a trick.

I wonder...since no pressure...can I warm it up good....let it sit off for 5 minutes to let the exhaust cool, pull the plug, start it back up and recheck?

Main thing is it not leaking during a start up kick.

[68fastback]

You can -- that's probably what the dealer would do anyway-lol -- just won't be as accurate.

If you do that maybe pre-loosen the plug (but not remove) the plug and, after you restart, with foot on brake, move slowly through the gears -- wait a sec for the trans to 'hook' b/c that's what consistently loads & couples the torque converter & clutch packs and maybe even power-brake a bit in Drive before going to idle in neutral: e.g. P > R > N > D> N -- then remove the plug, wipe, re-insert to check. It's important to go into Drive before going to Neutral to check to get a good reading as this best simulates the preferred method (immediately after driving).

---

What I've done (and this is totaly NOT a Ford 'approved' method -lol) is to do it correctly (level, hot, idling neutral, etc) a few times (much easier with a conventional dipstick) and sketch on a piece of paper where the hot-level is relative to the hashmarks (or whatever reference you choose). If consistent (it should be unless there's a leak) after a few tests, then I wait until the next day when it's fully-coiled (temperature matters!) and scribe that cold level on the dipstick. Then you can check it cold ...more convenient. Even one proper hot check might be adequate to 'cold-calibrate' since it seems very consistent (see below).

Of course, this only works if you check in the exact same spot and after doing the exact same shutdown thing (like pulling into the garage and going directly from Drive to Park to shut down in that same spot -- or whatever routine you typically consistently follow) ...more convenient to check cold, even with a dipstick. This is totally unapproved because it's dependent on having done EXACTLY the same things just before shutdown, which is why I do that the garage (same spot) and after the same shutdown routine.

I have done this bogus-calibration literally for decades (occasionally doing a proper test too as a sanity check on the process) and though the levels on the stick for correct-hot and for my bogus-cold test are quite different (bogus cold-test level is higher), it is dead consistent as long as the shutdown routine is consistent. Ambient cold temp does not seem to affect the level much at all (maybe a 1/16" from summer-cold to winter-cold).

I've hesitated to mention this because it's simply a bogus method but, once 'calibrated,' it would seem to make checking these silly plug-dipstick trans MUCH easier, assuming it will also work on these 6-speeds. Fwiw, it worked on the Quardavan's longitudinal C6, and on the Taurus wagon and '09 Fusion (both transverse front drive) so I think it will work on most any automatic given the necessary shut-down consistency mentioned above.

[Tommy Gun]

Hmm... look what I found in the kitchen...


25427

.

[Highwayman]

Hmm... look what wont be returning to the kitchen...


25427

.

Fixed

[Tommy Gun]

:look:

[The Bone]

Not a word to Donia.:hide:

[Tommy Gun]

:trouble: