2004 Ram 1500 gas tank

[twobjshelbys]

[cross posted copy]

OK, this is a plea for a part, but also relevant to the current GT parts availability.


I need a 34 gallon gas tank for a 2004 Ram 1500 pickup.


Why?

Because Dodge / Ram discontinued it in 2020!!!


Sound familiar?


So if anyone knows of a place that buys new old stock and might have one please send me contact info.


Backstory:


First, I don't drive this much except in the fall/winter/spring. It sits outside because the garage is too short and unless I need it because the Honda is out it sits til cooler weather.


About two years ago I noticed a fuel smell around the truck after I'd drive it. And especially in hot Vegas days. After a while it got to be enough that I'd get a whiff in the hottest summer days even if it hadn't been out. So I did the searches for mere mortal work and eventually took it to the dealer. His claim was fuel pump tubing connectors so they replaced it and indeed things improved. That was in Oct 2020.


Time moves forward... During the summer during one of the few times when I had it out because the boss was somewhere else, sitting in the parking lot of the doctors office waiting because I didn't want to go in to maskville I hear a chime and see the check engine light come on and at the same time the gas gauge take a dive from a little over half to pegged empty. This wasn't a free fall. It was "driven" (gauge people understand the difference). Then I turned off the engine, started it up again and the gauge was normal (but the CEL stayed on). Code said something about fuel level sensor out of range. Cleared the code and everything was OK, ran the drive cycle to get all the readiness things done [Which by the way is 10x easier than Ford, esp. the GT, got everything except evap in about 10 miles].


Still on the same tank, down to about 3/8 and it triggers again but without the and the gauge pegged dealer says to wait. Eventually it happened with little time between, there were two codes. But before I took it in the codes cleared but I took it in anyway because the second code gave them a better clue. Lo and behold, on the way to the dealer it failed again so I had not only the CEL on but the gauge pegged down. They brought out their scanner and said - what everyone though but couldn't previous prove - that the sweeper for the fuel level float was bad.


Replaced the fuel pump again (which includes the gas gauge assembly).


Not too many miles but a few months pass (remember, don't drive it in the summer) and a week ago throws a CEL again. P0456 and P0440 - both evap system "small leak" failures. Cleared them and ran a cycle. This time it added P0442 - another small leak. Did the standard small leak fix - gas cap... Failed again before evap self test completes. P0440. This all happens over about a week. By the way, they replaced the fuel pump under warranty. Oh, also relevant, is that when they were looking for the fuel pump from Mopar it was on backorder so they got me one from Autozone. Autozone covered the dealer labor and part under their warranty. If I had bought the part from Autozone they would have covered the part but not the labor, but since the dealer bought it they covered both. Kudos to both for doing that.


OK, so there is something broken for real. The next item in the diagnosis tree is the evap purge solenoid. But the common thing in the tree for all of them is "did you replace the fuel pump".... Yes.


So decided to take it to dealer. If it is the purge valve it's on me - it's about a $70 part plus labor and it's a wash. But if it isn't the purge valve, it's still to the dealer and I'm just throwing parts. So off I go this morning...


This place has been backed up for several days in the past, so I just dropped it off this morning.. They smoke tested it and concluded there is a crack in the tank near one of the "ports" - didn't say but probably the fuel pump area. Tank is about $1000... But, none available. Lots of google search places show them and I finally got one who was chatty. (And for some reason the top google search places for this part number show Canadian web sites which all end up at a dealer. And they can't ship to the us. But that doesn't matter since Mopar discontinued it in 2020. Which by the way was also the answer when I had the fuel pump replaced. First time it was on backorder, second time the Mopar part was discontinued but at least the aftermarket was still there.)


Back to the tank... I tried maybe 10 parts places and those that ended up at dealers and contrary to their web sites claiming availability, all said discontinued and "No, we don't have one in a secret stash". Even Tasca said the same thing.



So at the first contact, it started off that the tank was cracked before. I told them that they would have to prove that it was there when I took it in and said they would get back to me. This afternoon I talked to them and they said they will do their best to do all of this as another "warranty". The bad news is that they still can't find one...


It's kind of scary that literally, there is not a single 34 gallon gas tank anywhere on the planet.



In my searching I've found that several folks with this truck have taken the 26 gallon tank and upgraded to the 34. I suggested they look to see if it can be downgraded. He was receptive to the idea.


So, anyway, I tell this story knowing that those with Ford GTs are going through some of the same concerns. I guess it's comforting to know we're not alone, but disconcerting that a car/truck from 2004-2006 has parts that are discontinued by the manufacturer...


Seriously guys, and anyone with connections to the dealer higher ups, cars just by their nature simply last longer. Forget about years. These cars are good "forever". We have 100K Ford GTs. Trucks like mine are not rare at 500K+ miles. You build 'em to last, and then tell us that it's junk yard scrap because I can't get a simple emissions related part!!! Give us parts for more than 20 years!





Sigh...

[Tommy Gun]

:(



Is the main issue w the Dodge tank a crack? If so, can’t be repaired?

.

[Highwayman]

[cross posted copy]

OK, this is a plea for a part, but also relevant to the current GT parts availability.


I need a 34 gallon gas tank for a 2004 Ram 1500 pickup.


Why?

Because Dodge / Ram discontinued it in 2020!!!


Sound familiar?


So if anyone knows of a place that buys new old stock and might have one please send me contact info.


Backstory:


First, I don't drive this much except in the fall/winter/spring. It sits outside because the garage is too short and unless I need it because the Honda is out it sits til cooler weather.


About two years ago I noticed a fuel smell around the truck after I'd drive it. And especially in hot Vegas days. After a while it got to be enough that I'd get a whiff in the hottest summer days even if it hadn't been out. So I did the searches for mere mortal work and eventually took it to the dealer. His claim was fuel pump tubing connectors so they replaced it and indeed things improved. That was in Oct 2020.


Time moves forward... During the summer during one of the few times when I had it out because the boss was somewhere else, sitting in the parking lot of the doctors office waiting because I didn't want to go in to maskville I hear a chime and see the check engine light come on and at the same time the gas gauge take a dive from a little over half to pegged empty. This wasn't a free fall. It was "driven" (gauge people understand the difference). Then I turned off the engine, started it up again and the gauge was normal (but the CEL stayed on). Code said something about fuel level sensor out of range. Cleared the code and everything was OK, ran the drive cycle to get all the readiness things done [Which by the way is 10x easier than Ford, esp. the GT, got everything except evap in about 10 miles].


Still on the same tank, down to about 3/8 and it triggers again but without the and the gauge pegged dealer says to wait. Eventually it happened with little time between, there were two codes. But before I took it in the codes cleared but I took it in anyway because the second code gave them a better clue. Lo and behold, on the way to the dealer it failed again so I had not only the CEL on but the gauge pegged down. They brought out their scanner and said - what everyone though but couldn't previous prove - that the sweeper for the fuel level float was bad.


Replaced the fuel pump again (which includes the gas gauge assembly).


Not too many miles but a few months pass (remember, don't drive it in the summer) and a week ago throws a CEL again. P0456 and P0440 - both evap system "small leak" failures. Cleared them and ran a cycle. This time it added P0442 - another small leak. Did the standard small leak fix - gas cap... Failed again before evap self test completes. P0440. This all happens over about a week. By the way, they replaced the fuel pump under warranty. Oh, also relevant, is that when they were looking for the fuel pump from Mopar it was on backorder so they got me one from Autozone. Autozone covered the dealer labor and part under their warranty. If I had bought the part from Autozone they would have covered the part but not the labor, but since the dealer bought it they covered both. Kudos to both for doing that.


OK, so there is something broken for real. The next item in the diagnosis tree is the evap purge solenoid. But the common thing in the tree for all of them is "did you replace the fuel pump".... Yes.


So decided to take it to dealer. If it is the purge valve it's on me - it's about a $70 part plus labor and it's a wash. But if it isn't the purge valve, it's still to the dealer and I'm just throwing parts. So off I go this morning...


This place has been backed up for several days in the past, so I just dropped it off this morning.. They smoke tested it and concluded there is a crack in the tank near one of the "ports" - didn't say but probably the fuel pump area. Tank is about $1000... But, none available. Lots of google search places show them and I finally got one who was chatty. (And for some reason the top google search places for this part number show Canadian web sites which all end up at a dealer. And they can't ship to the us. But that doesn't matter since Mopar discontinued it in 2020. Which by the way was also the answer when I had the fuel pump replaced. First time it was on backorder, second time the Mopar part was discontinued but at least the aftermarket was still there.)


Back to the tank... I tried maybe 10 parts places and those that ended up at dealers and contrary to their web sites claiming availability, all said discontinued and "No, we don't have one in a secret stash". Even Tasca said the same thing.



So at the first contact, it started off that the tank was cracked before. I told them that they would have to prove that it was there when I took it in and said they would get back to me. This afternoon I talked to them and they said they will do their best to do all of this as another "warranty". The bad news is that they still can't find one...


It's kind of scary that literally, there is not a single 34 gallon gas tank anywhere on the planet.



In my searching I've found that several folks with this truck have taken the 26 gallon tank and upgraded to the 34. I suggested they look to see if it can be downgraded. He was receptive to the idea.


So, anyway, I tell this story knowing that those with Ford GTs are going through some of the same concerns. I guess it's comforting to know we're not alone, but disconcerting that a car/truck from 2004-2006 has parts that are discontinued by the manufacturer...


Seriously guys, and anyone with connections to the dealer higher ups, cars just by their nature simply last longer. Forget about years. These cars are good "forever". We have 100K Ford GTs. Trucks like mine are not rare at 500K+ miles. You build 'em to last, and then tell us that it's junk yard scrap because I can't get a simple emissions related part!!! Give us parts for more than 20 years!





Sigh...

Dan ??? Did Dan write this post?

[The Bone]

Check here https://www.moparpartsgiant.com/oem-dodge-ram_1500-fuel_tank.html
I found one at Summit Racing for $1,000

[twobjshelbys]

Check here https://www.moparpartsgiant.com/oem-dodge-ram_1500-fuel_tank.html
I found one at Summit Racing for $1,000

Mine is P/N 55366067AC (https://www.moparpartsgiant.com/parts/mopar-tank-fuel~55366067ac.html) (34 gallon). Mopar discontinued it two years ago so no dealer links are real.

[twobjshelbys]

So I got a call from them this morning. They found a used one that they deem "not broken" (almost all of the others had the same crack).

It will be 7-10 days for it to get here.

I was hoping I'd get to year 20 but the things are starting to stack up so I'm likely to sell this one and get another. I was really hoping they couldn't find the part so I could have some leverage on a new one but all of them they have are the crew cab (mine was quad cab with a 6'3" bed).

[Tommy Gun]

So is the crack inevitable with the one you are getting? :(


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[Tommy Gun]

Dan ??? Did Dan write this post?



You just made more scrolling. :ban:


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[twobjshelbys]

So is the crack inevitable with the one you are getting? :(


.

Apparently so. And noone makes it any more. Not Mopar or any of the usual aftermarket guys.

I'm going to sell it.

[onecrazydog]

Can't a crack be welded up?

[Tommy Gun]

Can't a crack be welded up?


I’m guessing it’s plastic, most tanks are now. They make putty for that unless it can be plastic welded, but I wouldn’t try that on a tank that has once had gas in it.

.

[twobjshelbys]

Can't a crack be welded up?

Plastic. Epoxy will probably fail too because it's on the edge of a tubing connection. Or it might be the tubing connection itself. They weren't specific.

This is a picture of the 26 gallon tank. The 34 can't look too much different since it fits in the same "hole".

29766

I suspect that the failure is the white "connector" in front of the center hole which is where the fuel pump goes. It could be one of the tube connectors or the white connector itself (which is not a separate part) I was going to bring this pic when I picked up the truck to have him show me but it didn't print.

[twobjshelbys]

I got a call late Thursday that the tank had arrived from the junk yard. I dropped it off Friday so they can get to it first thing Monday.

[onecrazydog]

Plastic can be welded...

[twobjshelbys]

Plastic can be welded...

They don't think it will work as the location is a stress point. It'd just fail again. They wouldn't warrant it. Furthermore, though not stated directly, the crack might not be in the tank itself but in the tubing connectors on a cap.

I asked to see the old part so I could figure out what happened.

[twobjshelbys]

New tank installed, got it back Thursday. No charge for part or labor. Dealer told me twice I needed front brakes.

Been driving it for daily errands to get drive cycle tests run. Down to the last one - evap which is the problem area. It usually doesn't take this long but I remembered that it wants to run with a fuller tank so yesterday I put in 15 gallons which got it just a little over half full.


I hadn't noticed the brakes but yesterday I also could hear the left front grinding. Pad must be pretty worn since the rotor is scored pretty badly at the outer diameter. Can't complain too badly - this is the first set of brakes, 18 years old and 101K miles.

Took it out yesterday and had noticed squeeling when making turns. Last time this was due to a low tire. Indeed the same tire is low again. On the way in to the place I looked at it and can see that it was low then noticed that it was cracking pretty badly around the lettering on the sidewall.

So today, new tires and new brakes...

I was thinking of selling it and getting a new one but after dropping somewhere between 1400-1600 on it today I might have to reconsider.

Both of these had to be done - I couldn't drive it otherwise. I'm going to be really POd if the evap system fails to come ready again since it'll be the third time and since they probably can't find parts the truck pretty much is scrap. If that happens I'm hoping they'll make me a deal on a new one.

[Tommy Gun]

Whoa, why no charge on the tank ? Maybe I didn’t read something before.



.

[twobjshelbys]

Whoa, why no charge on the tank ? Maybe I didn’t read something before.



.

Dealer took responsibility for the damage. Fuel pump replaced. Time passes. Fuel level swiper on the fuel pump fails. Dealer replaced fuel pump (under warranty) and consequently damaged the tank while removing it. They accepted the responsibility and replaced the tank which is no longer manufactured by Dodge/Ram and stock is completely gone everywhere. They found a tank in a junkyard, er, salvage yard, and replaced it. They failure of the broken tank was a Check Engine light for "slow evap leak". The evap self test is still running as was the symptom just after the second fuel pump R&R and it eventually failed. I hope it's just the number of key off/on cycles that it takes to run the purge cycle and not another leak. I'll check for pending codes when I get it back for brakes. All the other tests had completed. Let me tell you the Dodge drive cycle completes much faster than the Ford.

[Tommy Gun]

:wtg:


.

[The Bone]

New tank installed, got it back Thursday. No charge for part or labor. Dealer told me twice I needed front brakes.

Been driving it for daily errands to get drive cycle tests run. Down to the last one - evap which is the problem area. It usually doesn't take this long but I remembered that it wants to run with a fuller tank so yesterday I put in 15 gallons which got it just a little over half full.


I hadn't noticed the brakes but yesterday I also could hear the left front grinding. Pad must be pretty worn since the rotor is scored pretty badly at the outer diameter. Can't complain too badly - this is the first set of brakes, 18 years old and 101K miles.

Took it out yesterday and had noticed squeeling when making turns. Last time this was due to a low tire. Indeed the same tire is low again. On the way in to the place I looked at it and can see that it was low then noticed that it was cracking pretty badly around the lettering on the sidewall.

So today, new tires and new brakes...

I was thinking of selling it and getting a new one but after dropping somewhere between 1400-1600 on it today I might have to reconsider.

Both of these had to be done - I couldn't drive it otherwise. I'm going to be really POd if the evap system fails to come ready again since it'll be the third time and since they probably can't find parts the truck pretty much is scrap. If that happens I'm hoping they'll make me a deal on a new one.

Why is is they just tell you that you need brakes? they should take you out to your truck and show you. Sounds like they were real bad.

[twobjshelbys]

Why is is they just tell you that you need brakes? they should take you out to your truck and show you. Sounds like they were real bad.

Oh they were, I looked at the rotor and it was definitely scored. Rears are still good.

[twobjshelbys]

No go. P0440 code. Evap leak. Goes back tomorrow. Purge valve or charcoal canister. After that can only be hoses

[Tommy Gun]

:banghead:


.

[twobjshelbys]

Still no word. They've had it for a week. Told me if it was tank it was on them, otherwise on me. Slow leak can only now be purge valve or charcoal canister. Either is easily accessible and readily available. A week doesn't bode well. I'm still hoping I can talk them into a smoking deal on a new one.

[Tommy Gun]

Wow, hope no news is good news.


.

[Alloy Dave]

Still no word. They've had it for a week. Told me if it was tank it was on them, otherwise on me. Slow leak can only now be purge valve or charcoal canister. Either is easily accessible and readily available. A week doesn't bode well. I'm still hoping I can talk them into a smoking deal on a new one.
Parts probably coming from Ukraine.

[twobjshelbys]

Update...

On the last long trip in the shop work sheet said they smoke tested again and forced the evap cycle to run 3 times and it passed.

Got it back and I didn't get over about a mile and it threw a code again. Cleared it and ran the drive cycle, evap still stuck while all others cleared quickly so that's not a good sign.

On the way home I tried to add a little gas to get the tank above half full - according to the docs the evap cycle runs when between 1/4 and 3/4 full. There has to be some air in the tank but not too much. Gas wouldn't flow - immediately shut off. I thought it was the pump and the Sam's tank watcher came over and we stretched the hose to get the pump handle straight on the filler tube and he held the California vapor recapture cap back and I could see that the tube was filling and that was why it shut off...

Called the dealer and they said it would be mid next week. (10 days). I called service manager and said that was unacceptable and that this was the 5th time and recapped the history and that it was time to have some different eyes. He said to bring it in and would try tomorrow. Got a call back a little bit later and he said that they had disconnected and plugged some lines (probably the charcoal canister where vapors go) to run the smoke test and that it was sealed tank and that was causing the back pressure to shut the gas pump off and the cause of the leak on the other side.

Still no go. P0440 had been pending when I brought it back and was still there. The next day it added P0442 and it took a few more short drives but this morning the P0442 pending became the full blown CEL.

I replaced the evap purge valve before I brought it in before. This time I've got the evap vacuum pump (that attaches to the charcoal canister) on the way.

If that doesn't do it then the dealer will add Chrysler support to the deep dive. Corporate gives the tech a starting checklist that includes specific sequences and sensor readings to report. I saw some of these sensors on one of the Youtube video for this problem. If you look carefully down the tree you can see the ranges for sensor readings that identify the sensor that fails and then you can figure out a likely path of components including tubing and active sensors/components. I don't know why they haven't looked closer at their test equipment to begin with but they're not troubleshooters.

Sigh...

I'm still hoping they'll find another part that isn't made any more (many fo the tubes/hoses that connect to the various segments are no longer made, e.g., the final tube that goes from a rigid tube to the purge valve is no longer made, but could probably be easily fabricated if they had to...

Anyway, if some part shows up as unavialable I hope they'll make me a deal on a new one.

[Tommy Gun]

I stayed up all night and read this. Lol


.

[twobjshelbys]

At the end of the last episode P0442 was lit on the Check Engine Light.

Got the leak detection pump and installed it. It's buried behind a bunch of stuff so some disassembly was required. I futzed around trying to reach some screws to remove a heat shield and in that amount of time I could have moved the skid plate. I'm lucky this truck (almost 20 years old) was a Colorado truck so most of the bolts came out with little additional persuasion needed. I did WD40 the skid plate ones before I put them back.

There is a video. It shows the guy removing the pump and a O-ring type seal falling to the ground. The new one does not include it. It didn't seem worn or weathered so I coated it with a little vaseline to get a good seal.

I drove the Dodge drive cycle. The whole cycle except for evap runs in less than 10 miles. The very last test (O2 heater) stays not ready until a key-off-on cycle and then clears immediately.

First time I ran it showed P0442 pending. Cleared the pending code and ran the cycle again (again, 10 miles on the same loop) and its not pending but I expect it will return.

So most likely back to the dealer for the deep dive.

This is getting old.

[Tommy Gun]

Dang, seems never ending. :(


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[twobjshelbys]

OK, well, it may be over...

I put on the vacuum pump and right away it got the pending P0442 again. Cleared it and added a little gas to get it to 3/4 tank (which accelerates the test). Came back. So called dealer but they were booked out to mid last week so I decided to try some things...

One last resort. When I put the gas in I thought the cap felt weak. Remember this is a new cap I got from Amazon - same price as stores but I didn't have to get out of my arm chair. When I tightened it it seemed too easy and when I released it there was no resistance. My friend suggested I put a rubber band behind the O-ring to push it down but there wasn't enough room so I put a little vaseline on to get a better seal. It ran two cycles without a code but the test hadn't cleared yet. So I went to O'Reilley's and got a new cap. This one fit much better - gasket resistance both going on and coming off...

Test ran in two morning drives (engine has to be cold I think). Test cleared.

Had the cap for almost two months. Returned it to Amazon but they charged me a restocking fee. I said this is a warranty return, not a "I don't want it" return and they refunded the restocking fee too. Cheap (not inexpensive) chinese cap got a "1" review (because you can't give it 0).


So, from the beginning it is highly likely that I replaced the purge valve and vacuum pump for no reason - although the purge valve is doomed eventually anyway.

One more obstacle: I'll want to run this tank of gas down to near empty before I declare total victory. It's entirely possible that the old vacuum pump could clear a 1/4 tank of vapor (3/4 full) but couldn't handle the volume when it's empty. So if I get through a tank it'll probably be OK.


The O'Reilly cap has a story too. They showed the "soft" lanyard in their pictures. Got the cap and it's a stiff wavy lanyard. Gave it a try but the cover wouldn't close over the springy plastic lead. Talked to them on the phone about what it was I thought I was getting and the one I got. They eventually said the soft lanyard is discontinued. It showed 4 other stores with the same part number so I asked them to call around to see if one might be the old stock version. YES! One had the old version and they store transferred it.

[Highwayman]

Whew!!! So hope this is finally it.

[Tommy Gun]

Dang :faint:


.

[Alloy Dave]

Geesh, what a nightmare. Some people think it's easy to fix cars today because "the computer tells you what's wrong"...but as you can see it's not that simple. Hope you got it fixed.

[twobjshelbys]

Geesh, what a nightmare. Some people think it's easy to fix cars today because "the computer tells you what's wrong"...but as you can see it's not that simple. Hope you got it fixed.

The computer at best leads you to the trailhead but doesn't tell you what monsters life around the bend.

In this case the three codes have a set of possible components that starts with the gas cap then the rest of the connections and components they connect to. The purge valve is second then the leak detection pump. Then it gets to things like hoses and connectors that are difficult to swap but were low probability because of the smoke tests. It does mention fuel tank and charcoal canister but the tank was new and canister also passed smoke test.

[Tommy Gun]

Never heard of a leak detection pump. Weird.


.

[twobjshelbys]

Well, I went back and wrote a review for the cap and then read the ones that were there. Too bad I didn't before I ordered it as for the most part they echo my experience - replaced the cap and got evap check engine light... Sigh. I find that things that appear at the top of the list in Amazon searches usually are good quality. Not this one.

[twobjshelbys]

Never heard of a leak detection pump. Weird.


.


The evap system is considered positive pressure system - ie, the gas vapors in the tank are directed to the charcoal canister when the engine is not running. During operation the engine vacuum pulls vapors from the canister to the air intake and burns them off.

In order to test the system they don't pressurize it - they put a vacuum into the system. Close the purge valve and pull the vacuum down and then see if it holds vacuum for a period of time. If no air can get in, then no vapors can get out...

[Tommy Gun]

:faint:



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[twobjshelbys]

Well, the gas tank episode seems to be resolved. I filled the tank this week after staying about 1/2-3/4 full to give the evap tests plenty of chances to run. Seems to be OK. Finally. Now on to the second big ticket item... See here:

[Tommy Gun]

:waiting2:



.

[Alloy Dave]

:waiting:

[Highwayman]

:waiting2:


:waiting:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRJ38y4Jn6k

[Tommy Gun]

Perfect :haha:


I mean, like.


.