Tesla update

[Alloy Dave]

I would be nervous if Toyota's investment made them more than a 50% owner, but it would not. They would have significant influence though.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-06-15-tesla-ipo_N.htm

[68fastback]

This will be interesting to watch.

Tesla still hasn't sold one car to anyone who's no an insider in some way (family, friends, trusted supporter/investor, etc). There's nothing new about their technology, just a cool car. So I can't seen them playing with the big-boys long term. Maybe Toyota feels the'll ride a shor-term investment wave and then eventually take them over as a Toyota brand as the tecnology becomes commonplace (3-5 years max, imo). Ford and others jump in slowly next year, then much more aggressively in 2012 with pure electrics on the next-gen batterry tech which Ford themselves will manufacture. Tesla is dependent on external suppliers ...that has to hurt them in the longer term and Toyota may be cat-birding the 'vice' that may eventually strangle Tesla if the eventually try to go mainstream (i.e. affordable). What Tesla has going for them, imo, is bright mangement, a unique-in-segment product (for some time, anyway ...Porsche is playing with pure electrics too), and a good image. But will that hold-up when the nut-cutting wave of broad competition flows-in? Dunno, but I would not want that bet.

[The Bone]

It is also interesting that Toyota told GM that they were through with them and now they partner with Tesla Motors. at the same plant that Toyoth had with GM.
All of there cars sell for more than $100,000 they look cool but who wants a car like that to drive around town.
Electric cars are only good if you only go 300 miles and have a couple hours to kill when you get there. it will never catch on in the USA until they will go farther than that.
Al Gore has one but would rather take the limo cause he is a big shot

[Alloy Dave]

This will be interesting to watch.

Tesla still hasn't sold one car to anyone who's no an insider in some way (family, friends, trusted supporter/investor, etc). There's nothing new about their technology, just a cool car. So I can't seen them playing with the big-boys long term. Maybe Toyota feels the'll ride a shor-term investment wave and then eventually take them over as a Toyota brand as the tecnology becomes commonplace (3-5 years max, imo). Ford and others jump in slowly next year, then much more aggressively in 2012 with pure electrics on the next-gen batterry tech which Ford themselves will manufacture. Tesla is dependent on external suppliers ...that has to hurt them in the longer term and Toyota may be cat-birding the 'vice' that may eventually strangle Tesla if the eventually try to go mainstream (i.e. affordable). What Tesla has going for them, imo, is bright mangement, a unique-in-segment product (for some time, anyway ...Porsche is playing with pure electrics too), and a good image. But will that hold-up when the nut-cutting wave of broad competition flows-in? Dunno, but I would not want that bet.

All I know their CEO is one proud, egotistical SOB. He's one of these guys that believes his company will be more well known than Ford some day. :wow2:

[Alloy Dave]

It is also interesting that Toyota told GM that they were through with them and now they partner with Tesla Motors. at the same plant that Toyoth had with GM.
All of there cars sell for more than $100,000 they look cool but who wants a car like that to drive around town.
Electric cars are only good if you only go 300 miles and have a couple hours to kill when you get there. it will never catch on in the USA until they will go farther than that.
Al Gore has one but would rather take the limo cause he is a big shot

I agree, but I think we'll see battery/powertrain advancement that will take these cars either well above 300 miles/charge, or have a much shorter charging time. Give it another 4-6 years.

[68fastback]

All I know their CEO is one proud, egotistical SOB. He's one of these guys that believes his company will be more well known than Ford some day. :wow2:

I think that's from Elon Musk making $Bs from selling his brainchild -- Paypal But he is a talented manager with a can-do attitude. Still, not clear all the management skill and best intents will prove durable in an industry satureated with automotive core-competancies -- which Tesla has virtually zero of.

Daimler invested some $50M in Tesla and GM had some investment (I forget how much) in their prime battery tech (a MA company, if I recall). In the last month or two GM formed a new tech investment arm (using $100M of *our* bail-out money!!!) named GM Ventures and will reportedly put their top Volt development executive, Jon Laukner, in charge at the end of this month ...so it will be interesting to see where/how that $100M (of ours!) gets invested. Both GM and Ford are investing in fairly similar lithium-ion battery technology and both are heavily investing ($200-300M) in manufacturing the battery packs in their own plants in Michigan. I just can't see Tesla competing with that economy of scale long-term (after the novel $100K+ Tesla super-roadster finds it's market) in any meaningfull volume unless someone, like a Toyota, sees their $50M investment as a potential good short-term return with the potential option to acquire a brand ...since the technology is nothing special beyond the batteries and systems integration -- none of which Tesla has any core-competencies in. Will be fun to watch. ;-)

I can see it now ...the 2015 Lexus Tesla 500BEV :weg: ...or will it be the Mercedes 500 BEV :grin:

[Alloy Dave]

Poor Elon Musk...got $1.5B for he and partners, and now is broke.

http://www.carmagik.com/tag/elon-musk-lawsuit/

I'm sorry, but this guy smells bad all around.

[Joe G]

Not surprising.

A lot of those "internet million/billionaires" have lost it all.

What a dufus.

[68fastback]

Poor Elon Musk...got $1.5B for he and partners, and now is broke.

http://www.carmagik.com/tag/elon-musk-lawsuit/

I'm sorry, but this guy smells bad all around.


Not surprising.

A lot of those "internet million/billionaires" have lost it all.

What a dufus.

Wow! When did that happen?! What a dufus. All the more reason the sharks will be in the water. It will be interesting to see with Daimler and Toyota nwo owning $100M of Tesla how long the BoD keeps Musk around. If he performs he'll stay, if not he may be gone soon after the build is in the can, so to speak. Knowing he's now got a lot of skin in his paycheck is a big motivator to succeed.

[The Bone]

He is going through a divorce now and the ex is taking him to the cleaners.
i saw on TV the other night that Tesla was supposed to build cars in LA and the city did some improvements to the area where he was to build cars then next thing they know he is in Fremont at NUMI
Could be a dirt bag.

Dave you are right it should be better in about 4 or 5 years I just dont think we will be ready for electric cars in that time. No infrastructure for them.
Wonder how much a person would pay for charging a car.Could it be like buying gas $40 to charge it up. If you could charge that much would the electric company want a piece of the action.

[68fastback]

...just need one of these in the trunk:

1156 :rofl:


...I suspect the electrics will be marketed primarily as commuter-cars ...with a 80-120 mile range they'd be a good choice ...especially if per-mile costs are 1/3 of gasoline (according to what I've read). Unfortunately that electricity (50% from coal in the US) will polute between 100 and 1000 times what burning gas does, but it will sooth the minds many knowing there's no *tailpipe* emissions :do2:

[Alloy Dave]

Art, I think you're right the electric companies will want a piece. However, they are regulated heavily and will have to get gov't approval for any rate increases. I think that's a bad thing...again the gov't will be involved in this and you can bet taxes will be applied....just on electricity vs. on gasoline today.

What I'd like to see is people go "off grid" with solar/wind, and use that to charge their car. Of course then the gov't would add taxes to solar/wind, just like they just did in some states for tanning booths to pay for health care.

My blood is boiling just thinking about it. :doh2:

[Orf]

What I'd like to see is people go "off grid" with solar/wind

I've been seriously considering solar on the barn roof (once it gets repaired), and a wind turbine next to the barn. Generate electricity both day and night...

[Johnny Dangerously]

I've been seriously considering solar on the barn roof (once it gets repaired), and a wind turbine next to the barn. Generate electricity both day and night...
Can't you do a solar pool heater too?


`

[Orf]

Can't you do a solar pool heater too?

With solar panel and a turbine, I would just go with an electric heater.

I'd also have 400 amp service in the barn...

[68fastback]

I've been seriously considering solar on the barn roof (once it gets repaired), and a wind turbine next to the barn. Generate electricity both day and night...

Solar is a safe bet but wind is very site dependent.

I know a guy here who has spent nearly 200K on a wind turbine (built his own 98' tower too ...he's a contractor), and though he's on a nice hill he still can't generate any usefull/reliable electricity.

[Orf]

Solar is a safe bet but wind is very site dependent.

I know a guy here who has spent nearly 200K on a wind turbine (built his own 98' tower too ...he's a contractor), and though he's on a nice hill he still can't generate any usefull/reliable electricity.

That's why it will be coupled with solar.

[Alloy Dave]

Solar is a safe bet but wind is very site dependent.

I know a guy here who has spent nearly 200K on a wind turbine (built his own 98' tower too ...he's a contractor), and though he's on a nice hill he still can't generate any usefull/reliable electricity.
But he lives in Pittsburgh. Isn't that kinda like Seattle? :yellowcard3:

[Johnny Dangerously]

With solar panel and a turbine, I would just go with an electric heater.

I'd also have 400 amp service in the barn...
400 amps... Plenty for a couple lifts, shop tools, beer fridges.


`

[68fastback]

But he lives in Pittsburgh. Isn't that kinda like Seattle? :yellowcard3:

Surprisingly there's plenty of light even in the NE for solar. What's nice about solar to is no moving parts ...they reliably deliver for decades and really high-quality integrated inverter systems available that can be configured for many differnt voltages. DC can get into big and expensive cabling if you use a parallel design so high-voltatage serial systems have advantages. The other side of that coin is that shadows imapct serial designs much more ...long explanation.

My thinking is that since either would be installed as grid-interactive (else battery-costs will eat up the benefits for a modern home ...vs a minimal off-grid arrangement), solar is a sure thing -- wind blows :giggle: when it will. Also, solar's daily variation is grid-interactive contract friendly whereas wind tends to be more seasonal in the NE (even on mountain tops). Since the utility really only uses your generation over-capacity to offset under-capacity (hence, grid-interactive) on a bi-monthly or quarterly basis and only buys-back at the wolesale rate (a tiny fraction of retail that you buy at), short hi-low cycles (like day/night for solar) are no problem, but long cycles (seasonal cycles for wind) are highly suboptimal for the consumer relative to how utilities structure their grid-interactive contracts.

Some states are trying to address this (as Germany has -- they artificially mandate price parity and use hogher taxes on conventional power production to compensate the utility when they have to pay for overgeneration at the retail rate ...big-gov foible bit I understand their motivation) but there are obvious political sticking points that have largely prevented it in the US. And the utilities are loath to pay retail for power when their wholesale power costs are a tiny fraction of retail.

This is why the far left want's cap-and-trade ...they believe the price of energy must be near-trippled to make green alternatives truly competitive on their own merit at scale, but that will be oppressive on the economy in general since it will impact the cost of nearly all products ...especially crippling to those who can least afford it ...oh, right, the gov't will just subsidize them :doh2:). Oh well, if cap-and-trde fails there's always a 20% VAT tax on every step along the way :rofl: Imo, we need to let the mice find the best route through the maze. Gov't should be pulling out the barriers (in the way of the goals), not building more complex mazes through rules and taxes. Jmho.

[Gr8snkbite]

Just use a bunch of gerbals

[Orf]

Just use a bunch of gerbals

OK, Richard Gere...

[68fastback]

That'll do it! :)











...or squirrels :giggle:

[The Bone]

I wish the government would get out of my way and let me have my gas powered car. There isn't any technology yet to replace it.
I do want cleaner air. The problem is the government is causing more problems than it solves. MTBE comes to mind. summer blend that gets less MPG than the winter blend. Commute lanes do more harm than good. Do people think that by adding a lane that only 2 or more can use is helping is nuts. Most of the people that can carpool are and it has done nothing to help traffic. So most people just sit in the sun burning gas going nowhere. Genius!!! You can't drill and get our own resources cause someone may need them in the future. foe what if everything is battery powered. Does anyone know how much oil reserves the government has on hand.
Then the other day congress was grilling BP and they asked Hayward what he was going to do with the oil well that they are drilling to relieve the pressure and he said that they are going to put cement into it and seal it off. I don't find any since in that at all I say suck all the oil you can out of it and deliver it to the American people. You already have it going so suck away and get what we can. so what if it loads the market with oil who cares we deserve some cheep oil for a change.
Rant off sorry guys this just gets me started
What was this thread about?

[68fastback]

Rants are good for the soul, Art.

They permit us to resist the urge to take miscreants like Pelosi and Reid and crush them like a bug. :rofl:

[Joe G]

Poor Elon Musk...got $1.5B for he and partners, and now is broke.

http://www.carmagik.com/tag/elon-musk-lawsuit/

I'm sorry, but this guy smells bad all around.


Here's some more info:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Elon-Musk-PayPal-Pioneer-Is-nytimes-3147541066.html?x=0

[The Bone]

Thanks 68
There was a thing on Yahoo today about this fool. How do you blow 200 million dollars?

[65SC]

Tesla's IPO

Tesla Motors Inc. begins selling stock to the public on Tuesday. The sale's success depends on how much investors are willing to bet on a car company that has never made a profit, sells a single vehicle and expects to lose money until at least 2012. As for the car, it's electric -- a kind of vehicle Americans have shown almost no appetite for -- and it's very pricey.

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1463/with-ipo-tesla-bets-on-electric-cars-future/

[Alloy Dave]

Tesla's IPO

Tesla Motors Inc. begins selling stock to the public on Tuesday. The sale's success depends on how much investors are willing to bet on a car company that has never made a profit, sells a single vehicle and expects to lose money until at least 2012. As for the car, it's electric -- a kind of vehicle Americans have shown almost no appetite for -- and it's very pricey.

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1463/with-ipo-tesla-bets-on-electric-cars-future/

I was just going to post this, you beat me to it. :yellowcard3:


IMO, the buyers are wanting Toyota to buy Tesla at some point in the future.

Can they stay alive until 2012 when they start selling more cars? Hmmmmm dunno.

[JTB]

Not sure if I can get into a car that sounds like my wife's MIXER when I push the accelerator....JMO


http://www.dealbeeper.com/uploads/images/kitchen_aid_mixer.jpg

[Joe G]

Not sure if I can get into a car that sounds like my wife's MIXER when I push the accelerator....JMO


http://www.dealbeeper.com/uploads/images/kitchen_aid_mixer.jpg

:haha:

[68fastback]

I was just going to post this, you beat me to it. :yellowcard3:


IMO, the buyers are wanting Toyota to buy Tesla at some point in the future.

Can they stay alive until 2012 when they start selling more cars? Hmmmmm dunno.

+1 my hunch in posts 2/6/9.

---

Elon is a master at start up but not scale. Scale scares the bejesus out of him because he's a technoilogist, not a businessman, first and foremost. Every business he's started that I'm aware of he's also sold just after demand crossed the sale-leverage knee -- when it's sale potential is highest realtive to his personal investment. He's a very creative guy (and a physicist) who loves the challenge of cracking a kernel of change (and I can appreciate the 'high' that provides for sure) and then moving on. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, imo. Better still, if you can then court an investor who might be a buyer down the road (Daimler and Toyota each have $50M or so of Tesla now) especially if their business synergy generates salivation and may assure the best price when you're ready to move on (or they've been seduced into wanting to squeeze you out). Not surprisingly, his 'ears' on the Tesla Board is his brother (who also coined prior start-ups with Elon) and I see they recently acquired a director whose business experience as the municipal water/sewer/electric manager of DuBai (sp?) may seem unrelated to the car business (except the grid management part), but who may also be a defacto conduit to future DuBai investors that could keep Daimler and/or Toyota 'honest' in a future 'bid' if one drops out (I expect one or both will make a bid for Tesla or will largely cash-out in the next 5 years). Imo, this is what Elon is expert at: setting up a buy-out where the buyer thinks they're 'targeting' his technology start-up but they are actually his investment turn-over 'target.'

Will be interesting to see how Space-X plays out too. Musk put $100M of his own money (from the $300+M from selling Zip2 to Compaq) into it. Everyone seems to think he's into Space-X for the long haul due to his believe in viable private space travel and the rivalry with Burt Rutan's Scaled Composites Corp (and others) -- but I seriously dobut it. He's into Space-X, imo, only long enough to seduce a deep-pocket buyer who is emotionally into the schtick of private space-travel-for-the-masses. I don't think Elon has any desire whatsoever to ever manage a business thru the market expansion phase, let alone dominance or maturity -- he would be bored out of his mind with that, imo, because he's a technologist first and a business man only to the extent absolutely necessary. I'm certainly not a fan of him (the person) but I totally respect his skill as an entrepreneur who specializes in early life-cycle business parlays for fun and profit.

Compaq bought his Zip2 for some $300+M. E-bay bought paypal for $1.5+B. NASA gave his Space-X around $1.6B some 18 months ago to continue to the next lauch vehicle plateau, so he'll keep Space-X until that money has maximally been used to advance Space-X's sellability to whoever might bid the highest. Imo, Musk knows that if you wait longer you can get a bit more, but the knee in the business curve -- where the business is still lean and small enough to be micro managed by the visionary technologist (Musk) yet the 'jewelry' of future-potential still sparkles bright to a seducible buyer -- is when he will jump.

On a side note, Jobs (Apple) management style is somewhat similar except Jobs is a better business man (even if dictatorship is a defective management style for a business of Apple's scale) who is turned-on by riding a products to niche dominance where actual profit is greatest -- way beyond the maximum leverage for a start-up sale. For Jobs a start-up technology is a means to a longer product end, imo. For Musk, imo, an exploited and sold start-up is the end.

[68fastback]

Not sure if I can get into a car that sounds like my wife's MIXER when I push the accelerator....JMO


http://www.dealbeeper.com/uploads/images/kitchen_aid_mixer.jpg

:spitcopy:

Wheeeeeeeee!

[Alloy Dave]

Not sure if I can get into a car that sounds like my wife's MIXER when I push the accelerator....JMO


http://www.dealbeeper.com/uploads/images/kitchen_aid_mixer.jpg

Wait about 10 years. Those things (electric cars) can (if made for performance) accelerate faster than any gasoline car you can think of due to the motor speed ramp-up. How would you like one to outrun your Mustang? :boxing:

[68fastback]

Wait about 10 years. Those things (electric cars) can (if made for performance) accelerate faster than any gasoline car you can think of due to the motor speed ramp-up. How would you like one to outrun your Mustang? :boxing:

There already are renegade "electric-heads" that home-build super-fast electric drag cars and some go to conventional drag races just to embarass the "gas-heads." Some tracks have given them their own 'class' to run in. Saw a show on TV some time ago about them ...the coverage was very biased (toward electrics) but it was still interesting. The "electric-heads" are mostly 'greens' who eschew pertoleum (or so it seemed from the interviews) ...I guess they don't live where it's cold in winter -lol). There are something like 50 Electric Automobile Association(??) chapters in the US according to the show, as I recall.

[Alloy Dave]

There already are renegade "electric-heads" that home-build super-fast electric drag cars and some go to conventional drag races just to embarass the "gas-heads." Some tracks have given them their own 'class' to run in. Saw a show on TV some time ago about them ...the coverage was very biased (toward electrics) but it was still interesting. The "electric-heads" are mostly 'greens' who eschew pertoleum (or so it seemed from the interviews) ...I guess they don't live where it's cold in winter -lol). There are something like 50 Electric Automobile Association(??) chapters in the US according to the show, as I recall.
So when they FAIL on the track, is it called a "short"?

:rofl:

[Joe G]

:groan:

[Cobra Drifter]

Seen a bunch of teslas at last sundays Supercar Sunday show. You cant hear them at all when they pass by you in the parking lot. If your not careful you will get run over :rolf3:

[Little Debbie]

So when they FAIL on the track, is it called a "short"?

:rofl:

...that's it...

you're grounded!!!

:tease2:

[JTB]

Wait about 10 years. Those things (electric cars) can (if made for performance) accelerate faster than any gasoline car you can think of due to the motor speed ramp-up. How would you like one to outrun your Mustang? :boxing:

One may get the Hole Shot but when that Battery is toast after 100 miles, I'll drive by and wave while SVEN is looking for his extension cord. :mafiasmilie:

The thing that is most annoying about this whole ELECTRIC initiative is the millions upon millions of tax dollars that have poured into these electric and hydrogen companies like BALLARD and the like.

Why do taxpayers have to fund the R&D of these companies through incentives and tax breaks? Actually, they deserve a :redcard:

That said, total agree with you about the power delivery of Electric Motors over Gas Powered Engines. The issues have always been the range and what to do with the spent batteries and those issues continue. IMO

Here's the most extraordinary electric car I have seen.

This electric drag racer is nuts!

http://www.opb.org/programs/ofg/segments/view/1686

[Little Debbie]

very informative video on the white zombie there.

only 300 hp in that thing, but full torque from the get-go and a winner every time.

begs the question, aside from the obvious (finding the right gear ratios, header lengths, maximizing air/exhaust flow, etc.), how could one maximize or reorganize things differently in a gas engine to get these type of results? I'd be interested in what blackshelby would have to say.

[Joe G]

:rolf3:

:dufus:

[Joe G]

...that's it...

you're grounded!!!

:tease2:



:groan: :groan:

[68fastback]

So when they FAIL on the track, is it called a "short"?

:rofl:


...that's it...

you're grounded!!!

:tease2:

:rofl: :groan:

...shocking!! ;-)

[Stew]

Didn't there stock go public yesterday? I thought I saw an article on Yahoo.

[Joe G]

Didn't there stock go public yesterday? I thought I saw an article on Yahoo.

Yep - stock was up like 40% the first day.

[Stew]

Yep - stock was up like 40% the first day.

I wonder how long it will last?

[Joe G]

I wonder how long it will last?

Up another 20% right now.

[68fastback]

very informative video on the white zombie there.

only 300 hp in that thing, but full torque from the get-go and a winner every time.

begs the question, aside from the obvious (finding the right gear ratios, header lengths, maximizing air/exhaust flow, etc.), how could one maximize or reorganize things differently in a gas engine to get these type of results? I'd be interested in what blackshelby would have to say.

Well, his best run in that vid seemed to be an 11.96 @ 110mph, so virtually every GT500 at Orfstock would beat it ...even on street tires ...even with it's great off-the-line hole-shot torque ...and then can drive home with the AC on ;-)

But... a purpose-built electric using hub-electric motors to minimize the need and weight of a super-strong tortionally resistant chassis could perform much better that that but I don't think there is presently any battery technology that could come close to the energy-density/lb of a AA/FD dragster (much higher fuel energy density than gas) ...at least not for a while.

I think it's very cool tho. When I was 12 I was rewinding electric motors to win in competitive slot-car racing and I fully expect kids in 20 years to be modding mom's old electric 'clunker' for fun ...just because they can. That's not my thing, but I can appreciate it.

You know the old saying: If it has wheels someone will mod it to make it go faster. :smile:

...I'm definately not ready for a Stangs United "Electric Corner" just yet tho :shades:

[Joe G]

When I was 12 I was rewinding electric motors to win in competitive slot-car racing and I fully expect kids in 20 years to be modding mom's old electric 'clunker' for fun ...just because they can.


Did they have electricity back then or did you need to wait for lightning to strike the kite string?

[Little Debbie]

:nonono:

[68fastback]

Did they have electricity back then or did you need to wait for lightning to strike the kite string?

:spitcopy:

I used the flooded wet cell from Carnut's 1915 Franklin Electric ...just before he sold it to Leno. :shades:

[Alloy Dave]

Well, his best run in that vid seemed to be an 11.96 @ 110mph, so virtually every GT500 at Orfstock would beat it ...even on street tires ...even with it's great off-the-line hole-shot torque ...and then can drive home with the AC on ;-)

But... a purpose-built electric using hub-electric motors to minimize the need and weight of a super-strong tortionally resistant chassis could perform much better that that but I don't think there is presently any battery technology that could come close to the energy-density/lb of a AA/FD dragster (much higher fuel energy density than gas) ...at least not for a while.

I think it's very cool tho. When I was 12 I was rewinding electric motors to win in competitive slot-car racing and I fully expect kids in 20 years to be modding mom's old electric 'clunker' for fun ...just because they can. That's not my thing, but I can appreciate it.

You know the old saying: If it has wheels someone will mod it to make it go faster. :smile:

...I'm definately not ready for a Stangs United "Electric Corner" just yet tho :shades:
1486

[Cobra Drifter]

Did someone say we needed an Electric Performance forum on SU now :look:

[Little Debbie]

not that I could see...

[Alloy Dave]

Did someone say we needed an Electric Performance forum on SU now :look:

watt?

[Alloy Dave]

http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2010/06/29/n_musk_iron_man.cnnmoney/

[68fastback]

'...I'm sometimes a little late delivering...'

Now there's an understatement :rofl3:

...the pyramids took only slightly longer than a production Tesla roadster (I'm estimating because there still is no production Tesla roadster) :giggle:

...glaciers have retreated quicker :rofl:

...Obama could blow $13T faster! :lol:

TG can get to Orfstock faster! :haha:

...

[Alloy Dave]

'...I'm sometimes a little late delivering...'

Now there's an understatement :rofl3:

...the pyramids took only slightly longer than a production Tesla roadster (I'm estimating because there still is no production Tesla roadster) :giggle:

...glaciers have retreated quicker :rofl:

...Obama could blow $13T faster! :lol:

TG can get to Orfstock faster! :haha:

...
:ohsnap:

P.S. Check out the soccer thread in my forum in a minute :haha:

[Alloy Dave]

http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/09/autos/toyota_tesla/index.htm

Nothing surprising here.

[68fastback]

:biggrin:

[Cobra Drifter]

http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/09/autos/toyota_tesla/index.htm

Nothing surprising here.


Well if spelling is a preview of the new Tesla, I say avoid it at all costs or risk joining the Dark Side :rofl3:


It is unclear, however, how far such a vehicle is in development. Toyoda reportedly said details of the program would be released later.

[Joe G]

Well if spelling is a preview of the new Tesla, I say avoid it at all costs or risk joining the Dark Side :rofl3:

:fail:


"Toyoda" referes to Toyota's (the company) chief executive Akio Toyoda (the person) - spelled differently.


:boink:

[Cobra Drifter]

No :fail: as its used in the context of the business, not the person. Joe G = :fail: :boink:

[onecrazydog]

Toyoduh!!

[Cobra Drifter]

http://gangstayoda.com/images/yoda/smilies/ganstayodasmilie.gif (http://GangstaYoda.com)

[Joe G]

No :fail: as its used in the context of the business, not the person. Joe G = :fail: :boink:

:no:

Re-read the previous paragraph - "Toyota Motor Co. chief executive Akio Toyoda was quoted in media reports from Japan saying..."


"Toyoda reportedly said details of the program would be released later" ... Toyoda, the person, is the one saying details of the program would be released later.


Dufus. :boink:


Cobra Drifter fails again. :rofl:

[Cobra Drifter]

:haha: I wonder how many more times I can get Joe to read that article :rofl3: :lol:




http://gangstayoda.com/images/yoda/smilies/ganstayodasmilie.gif (http://GangstaYoda.com)

[The Bone]

:goodpost:

[Joe G]

I wonder how long it will be before CD gets banned forever? :cop2:

[Alloy Dave]

I think there is also a company called Toyoda (yes, spelled with a d) that is a loom works company.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-73411348.html

[Cobra Drifter]

I wonder how long it will be before CD gets banned forever? :cop2:

<------I am un-bannable!!! :woot:

[Alloy Dave]

http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/07/autos/tesla_model_x_crossover/index.htm?iid=HP_LN

Iceman will like those rear doors. :look:

[Joe G]

Rear facing seats? :doh2:

[68fastback]

Rear facing seats? :doh2:

...helps with parking ...you can put an in-law back there and they can only beatch when you're backing up :haha:

[Joe G]

...helps with parking ...you can put an in-law back there and they can only beatch when you're backing up :haha:
Only works if they can see. :doh2:

8340

[68fastback]

Only works if they can see. :doh2:

8340

:hilarious: ...true ...and you can't easily strap him on the bumper for 'voice' notification :rofl3:

[Joe G]

:hilarious: ...true ...and you can't easily strap him on the bumper for 'voice' notification :rofl3:No... but it would be fun to try. :idea:

[tekheavy]

very informative video on the white zombie there.

only 300 hp in that thing, but full torque from the get-go and a winner every time.

begs the question, aside from the obvious (finding the right gear ratios, header lengths, maximizing air/exhaust flow, etc.), how could one maximize or reorganize things differently in a gas engine to get these type of results? I'd be interested in what blackshelby would have to say.


I love White Zombie. :guitar:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPNFVj-pISU

[Joe G]

:iagree:

[Tommy Gun]

:(


https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tragic-loss

.

[68fastback]

They seem to be implying that radar is fooled by the truck color and sky being light :nonono:

I wonder how much of those 130M miles are live-production Tesla Model-S miles vs road-test miles. It's understandable that, under the circumstances, the system might not have been able to prevent the crash. What isn't understandable (at least not yet -- hence NHTSA) is why it was unable to even try ...they image in multiple wavelengths, so not clear why NONE figured out a tractor trailer across the road in front of the car seemed to not be there. Hmmmm.

Could get interesting when there's lots of auto-pilot cars on the road all making real time decisions, including braking, turning/exiting, avoidance, etc. What happens when two try to occupy the same space at the same time? I guess when car-car communications are in place that will help but still not convinced that there aren't the types of dynamic 'fatal flaw' bugs that could get interesting once cast into auto-pilot complex dynamics ...just as the early internet had a few fatal flaws for first couple of decades -- except 'black hole packet' dynamics get more interesting when the packets are vehicles :shades: and car-car intercommunication actually has the potential to exacerbate that, tho has other dynamics benefits.

[Shelby-Don]

Cars talking to cars, huh
It's going to be irobot/terminator all over again, the cars are going to revolt and take over the roads !

[68fastback]

The car-car talking will most likely roll-out before full autonomy. Ford is currently evaluating car-car communication in the Dearborn area on public roads with an unstated number of cars and both in and away from a 'hot' zone where road sensors and signals also interact with the cars. They are also evaluating autonomous prototypes.

I'd guess GM is doing likewise, but dunno.

[Carnut]

Forget about any individuality in the future No.23456uio56u

[68fastback]

Then individuals can drive 'dark' vehicles and try to spook autonomous vehicle systems into doing odd things :weg: :haha:

[Joe G]

Forget about any individuality in the future No.23456uio56u

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1332599/images/o-100-HUMAINS-facebook.jpg

[Tommy Gun]

They seem to be implying that radar is fooled by the truck color and sky being light :nonono:

I wonder how much of those 130M miles are live-production Tesla Model-S miles vs road-test miles. It's understandable that, under the circumstances, the system might not have been able to prevent the crash. What isn't understandable (at least not yet -- hence NHTSA) is why it was unable to even try ...they image in multiple wavelengths, so not clear why NONE figured out a tractor trailer across the road in front of the car seemed to not be there. Hmmmm.

Could get interesting when there's lots of auto-pilot cars on the road all making real time decisions, including braking, turning/exiting, avoidance, etc. What happens when two try to occupy the same space at the same time? I guess when car-car communications are in place that will help but still not convinced that there aren't the types of dynamic 'fatal flaw' bugs that could get interesting once cast into auto-pilot complex dynamics ...just as the early internet had a few fatal flaws for first couple of decades -- except 'black hole packet' dynamics get more interesting when the packets are vehicles :shades: and car-car intercommunication actually has the potential to exacerbate that, tho has other dynamics benefits.



The issue has been found to be Harry Potter. :look:

.

[68fastback]

:lol: I found out they also were running the latest version of autopilot which supposedly fixed this type of missed crash-avoidance after an earlier crash occurred. Sounds like they're still working out the kinks.

My hunch is that they will have many more 'dynamics' related 'glitches' once the rollout of such autopilot vehicles is more pervasive -- a scary thought :rofl3:

[The Bone]

The guy that died was stupid. he wasn't paying attention to what the car was doing. probably reading a book. Dumb Ass
This is what is going to happen more and more. People thinking the car can drive itself. Sure it may be able to do some things but relying totally on the car is a foolish thing. There is no way that anyone can plan for every driving situation. These auto braking cars project the driver not paying attention and the car saves his ass. There are enough people not paying attention to the road now we have to worry about every Tesla.

[68fastback]

Art, I think you hit right on the subtle evil seduction of autopilot since there's effectively no better way to stay attentive than to actually be ...driving! You have to be engaged in the activity to be attentive. Just because technology CAN do something doesn't mean we should ...appropriate use of technology is an age-old dilemma that product producers trying to gain an edge have little motivation to deeply consider the longer ramifications of, just legal liability -- and that road (lol) will be pre-paved with appropriate disclaimers and, eventually, legal precedents (depending on the make-up of SCOTUS).

Glitches aside, the far left is intent, long term, on removing ALL driver-directed vehicles from the road. Even autopilot vehicles are viewed as a necessary 'interim' by the nut-jobs to get to ZERO private transportation ownership ...then inductively-powered dynamic 'chain-tran' travel 'make sense' in a society where all transportation is 'public' except for self-powered vehicles, like bicycles. Zero ownership is all part of totally controlling the society! :yes: ...unconstitutional, and makes my blood boil!

But we'll be told it's for our own good -- you'll come to love it -- less energy consumption = less emissions = reversing global warming (shoot me now) andone happily-integrated society. Nonsense! Of course kids growing up are already being separated from any emotional attachment to cool cars, driving, car modification, even riding in the front seat until they're fully imprinted with indifference to cars ...all under a banner of 'safety' ...essential to working the longer term 'plan.' You should see some of the lit of the far left -- you'd :barf: ...they are so puking self-righteous and indignant too in their grand vision of what THEY must make society into -- vs our Constitution letting the individual determine how that plays out ...individually -- with technology providing new CHOICES from which to choose. Of course it will look like self-determination in the short term -- it always does -- until you look back.

I want to drive my own azz where I want to, when I want to, how I want to, and with whom I choose to and in what I want to and that is exactly what is at stake -- long term.

[Tommy Gun]

...and if I want the headlights on ill turn them on, if I want the doors to lock I'll lock the doors, if I want the radio to play I don't want to have to click in the seatbelt...I despise all the control crap on newer cars!

[Joe G]

The guy that died was stupid.

LOL. It's just like you're sitting on my front porch again. :haha:




Miss you and Susan. Mrs G and I really enjoyed your company.

[Joe G]

...and if I want the headlights on ill turn them on, if I want the doors to lock I'll lock the doors, if I want the radio to play I don't want to have to click in the seatbelt...I despise all the control crap on newer cars!

https://adriannerussell.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/grumpy-old-man.jpg

[68fastback]

...and if I want the headlights on ill turn them on, if I want the doors to lock I'll lock the doors, if I want the radio to play I don't want to have to click in the seatbelt...I despise all the control crap on newer cars!

:Me too :webers:

...or at least let me program off the 'automatic' crap I don't want.

[68fastback]

https://adriannerussell.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/grumpy-old-man.jpg

:spitcopy:

[Tommy Gun]

Tesla update for the day...


They are still on tour :git:


Wish they were closer like last year. :(


http://teslatheband.com

[68fastback]

http://www.amazing1.com/content/Graphics/finger3.gif
...shocking! :giggle:

They are all over the place!

[Tommy Gun]

:wtg:

[Carnut]

Art, I think you hit right on the subtle evil seduction of autopilot since there's effectively no better way to stay attentive than to actually be ...driving! You have to be engaged in the activity to be attentive. Just because technology CAN do something doesn't mean we should ...appropriate use of technology is an age-old dilemma that product producers trying to gain an edge have little motivation to deeply consider the longer ramifications of, just legal liability -- and that road (lol) will be pre-paved with appropriate disclaimers and, eventually, legal precedents (depending on the make-up of SCOTUS).

Glitches aside, the far left is intent, long term, on removing ALL driver-directed vehicles from the road. Even autopilot vehicles are viewed as a necessary 'interim' by the nut-jobs to get to ZERO private transportation ownership ...then inductively-powered dynamic 'chain-tran' travel 'make sense' in a society where all transportation is 'public' except for self-powered vehicles, like bicycles. Zero ownership is all part of totally controlling the society! :yes: ...unconstitutional, and makes my blood boil!

But we'll be told it's for our own good -- you'll come to love it -- less energy consumption = less emissions = reversing global warming (shoot me now) andone happily-integrated society. Nonsense! Of course kids growing up are already being separated from any emotional attachment to cool cars, driving, car modification, even riding in the front seat until they're fully imprinted with indifference to cars ...all under a banner of 'safety' ...essential to working the longer term 'plan.' You should see some of the lit of the far left -- you'd :barf: ...they are so puking self-righteous and indignant too in their grand vision of what THEY must make society into -- vs our Constitution letting the individual determine how that plays out ...individually -- with technology providing new CHOICES from which to choose. Of course it will look like self-determination in the short term -- it always does -- until you look back.

I want to drive my own azz where I want to, when I want to, how I want to, and with whom I choose to and in what I want to and that is exactly what is at stake -- long term.

You need to welcome Utopia with open arms. The land where everything is made by robots, there are no workers, farmers or anyone doing for themselves. No one needs to own anything and there is no need for money. Everything is provided by government vending machines. Everyone is happy, there is no crime, therefore no police or armies. No one needs to lift a finger, most have forgotten how. One day a large cosmic burst takes out the grid. We all die because we forgot how to make or fix anything. End of story.

[68fastback]

...and you WILL BE HAPPY ...OR ELSE! :rofl3:
Mental image of child in white hop-scotching down a white silk aisle throwing rose petals ...except it's not a wedding -- it's every day in kindergarten :spitcopy:
...and practical on-your-feet self-sufficient ingenuity will be a romantically nostalgic concept old codgers reminisce and young-uns curiously giggle at :doh2:
I better tell the grandkids to study the only two surviving professions: robotics engineers...
...and psychoanalysts :doh: :rofl2:
Crap ...I wish it was actually funny ;-(
Makes ya just want to run out and change the world by hugging jihadists one at a time so they must surely and instantly turn into your neighborhood Welcome Wagon volunteers :hilarious:

[68fastback]

The US federal government is really, really taking an interest in Tesla's Autopilot (http://www.autoblog.com/tag/autopilot/) technology. Following a string of accidents, including a fatal crash (http://www.autoblog.com/2016/07/01/feds-investigate-tesla-autopilot-fatality/) on May 7, the SEC (http://www.autoblog.com/2016/07/11/tesla-sec-inquiry-autopilot-death-report/) and NHTSA (http://www.autoblog.com/2016/07/11/tesla-sec-inquiry-autopilot-death-report/) have already started looking into Autopilot. Yesterday, the US Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation sent a letter (https://www.commerce.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/pressreleases?ID=2DD9DBE9-C80A-4D9F-8AB5-8723C5002CB7) to Tesla asking CEO Elon Musk to come to DC and have a chat. Senator John Thune (https://twitter.com/johnthune/) (R-SD) sent the letter and wants to hear from Musk by July 29.

The issue, the Committee says, is "whether the technology performed as intended and Tesla's actions to educate consumers on the benefits and limitations of the technology." Thune's letter says he "generally support(s)" autonomous driving technology, but wants to make sure, "the Autopilot technology was deployed safely in this instance." You can read the full letter HERE (http://www.autoblog.com/2016/07/15/us-senate-tesla-autopilot/?icid=autoblog|trend|senate-to-grill-tesla)

[Alloy Dave]

:conspiracy:

[The Bone]

Watch and see if the government will mandate self driving cars and we are all going to die.

[Tommy Gun]

More control over people. :(

[Carnut]

The manufacturers are probably lobbying congress as we speak. Lots of money to be made in transforming an entire industry and politicians will be lining up to get their cut. Since traffic tickets would no longer be necessary, a presumed violation fee would be assessed against every car. It would of course be served to you electronically by a virtual cop.

[Joe G]

It would of course be served to you electronically by a virtual cop.

I prefer Robocops.


:yikes:

https://media.giphy.com/media/OEKshFtHYAHCw/giphy.gif

[68fastback]

...who will accept virtual money (Visa, etc) so you don't have to go to virtual court :rofl3:

[Carnut]

Yep, virtually.

[68fastback]

Ok, I was just laughing so hard!

You're probably aware that Elon Musk has this grand plan for what he calls the Hyperloop -- a cross-country pneumatic-driven train in a tube.

Well, while perusing the patent office I did some searches and a US patent was issued Nov 5th for that -- in 1867

Here's the artwork for that patent (http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US70504-0.png):haha: I love the traditional wood-panel door :rofl3: ...but I guess Elon's grand idea has been thought of before :lol:

[Alloy Dave]

Top hats, canes, and umbrellas. :nonono:

[Joe G]

Davey approves of the wooden doors. :wtg: